Predator Gasser

[superflyer]

Hi Guys,
It's SUperflyer. I jsut heard of the predator gasser. I dont have one i am jsut wonedering if they were any good? Are they any good?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

I have one. I love it. I'm waiting on a tail servo to be repaired, so I haven't flown it for a while. It's a VERY smooth flyer and still very nimble for the weight of a gasser machine.

[superflyer]

cool. Just was curious. Is it powerful?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

It doesn't have the power/weight ratio of a 60/90 sized glow machine, but it still is quite powerful. Plenty to throw it around pretty hard and have it coming back for more. You may need to use a little more collective management for real aggressive 3D.
DId I mention the run times? 25 min per tank. That's a lot of flying!

[superflyer]

Now how about diffucalty leval. How experienced do you have to be 2 fly it? Now do you have any truble starting it after a while of sitting?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

The most difficult aspect of flying it is the price. You can tend to be afraid of it. This is my problem with mine. I still have a ball flying it, but I'm not near as aggressive with it as my Raptor. If you can get past the fear, it's more stable than anything you'll fly out there. It's easier to see because of the size. The biggest reason it's not a good beginner machine is that it's so expensive. Plus tuning a gasser and setting up throttle curves are very different than a glow machine. You can't watch the smoke because it doesn't smoke once it's warmed up. You need to know just by listening...and knowing what to listen for.

As far as starting, you just push the primer bulb until it's full (2 or 3 times), then pull it twice choked, open the choke and pull it once more. It's not tempermental on starting, it's really a joy. Plus everyone at the field will get a kick out of pull-starting it instead of all the support equipment you need to hook to a glow machine.

[superflyer]

How much was it with a estimate. The only reason i ask is i have no clue.

[tdswan]

I've got about $1850 in mine minus the radio.

[superflyer]

wow thats alot

[superflyer]

tdswan do you have any more vids of you flying it that i could see? also could you post a picute of it with the top off of it so i can see the engine?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

Here goes.....I'm going to post them one at a time so they will show without having to open them.
Here's a shot of the right side. Look at the size of that muffler!

[tdswan]

Here's a shot of the back of the heli and spark plug protruding from the cooling shroud.

[tdswan]

Some shots of the carb and fuel primer.

[tdswan]

Another of the left side and carb.

[tdswan]

A shot of the pull start looking up into the cooling shroud so you can actually see the head.

[tdswan]

Here's a little size comparison for you. That's a Raptor 50.

[tdswan]

Here they are lined up with the noses even. Looks like my horizontal fin is crooked....Gotta adjust that.

[blax1]

Crickey's Td, Thats the first shots I've ever seen of a gasser :eek: What a great machine, how big is it?? Rotor size and overall length etc, I thought a gasser was just another nick name for a nitro chopper ( well I'm out of the closet now!! :) )
Cheers Ralph

[blax1]

Oh Ok!! :o I was a little quick off the mark!! :)
Nice looking Heli-s Td
Thanks for the photo's that makes comparison much easier :)

[tdswan]

The rotor span is 62" and the tail rotor is about 10 1/2 inches. That's running 700mm blades. It will turn 720's. The tail blades are 95mm and I think I've heard of guys running 115's on it before. I'm assuming you use the metric system down under, that's about 12 decimeters or so using my little 12cm ruler to measure by flipping it over and over! :eek:

[blax1]

Yes we do use metric, BUT we older folk can handle imperial LOL, So thats what a gasser is, it almost looks like a whipper sniper engine, am I correct to say the heli is about the same size as a 90 heli- also I imagine she would be very docile to fly because of the her size and weight and I can understand why you said you dont throw it around as in 3D style its a big machine it must look terrific in the air :) BTW I downloaded your 7minute high res- video last night at home and it looked great who ever that bloke was can certainly mix it with the best of them. :D
Cheers Ralph

[tdswan]

I was the "bloke" flying in the video! I love the Austrailian, man! I'm actually reading your posts and hearing the Austrailian accent come out in my mind!
We've got a guy in our club who's from England. I love listening to him talk, too. Around this part of the world, our way of talking is so bland unless you're from the far southern part of the country or the eastern seaboard. Can you spot a northern or southern accent in Austrailia?

[blax1]

Oh Ok I understand now!!! I thought it was you taking the video of someone else!!! LOL :)
Yes well I thoroughly enjoyed the video and not a bad choice of music either. I can understand what you are saying about people and their accents, the same is true here in Aussie as well, we can obviously tell when there is an American around it just sound different and people do stop and take notice, my wife’s parents are English and their deep Yorkshire accent is something to behold and sometimes I don’t have a clue what they are talking about! :)

[superflyer]

Thanks alot Tdswan. Yes it does make it alot easier to comepare the features to nitro plane. I really think i am going to get that for my dad. That thing is truyly awsome. Hey i also appreciate you posting those picutres for me.

Superflyer

[tdswan]

It's really no trouble. the digital camera is usually close-by and it's no sweat to upload them quick and post them. Alway happy to further the hobby.

[superflyer]

now the gass it takes is miked with oil right?

Superflyer. P.S what is the advantice of gas vs nitro?

Superflyer

[superflyer]

tdswan,
In your oppinion what heli is bstter your gasser or nitro?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

Hmmmm gasser vs. nitro.

Gasser Pros:
-Heavier / More stable.
-No oily cleanup.
-Cheap fuel.
-Once you've got it tuned, you rarely will have to touch the needles.
-Big and easy to see.
-You can run camping fuel in them to make them even cleaner, which I do.
-Eeeeassyyy starting.
-Longer run-times.
-Chicks dig it when you've got gas :p

Gasser cons:
-Heavier / less aerobatic.
-Electronics can be interfered with because of the ignition on the engine.
-Gyros are a little harder to get set up.
-The engine can be the root of a seeminly un-related problem (if a problem arises like vibrations or tails behaving badly).
-More expensive to buy and crash.
-Need to run PCM and bigger, more expensive servos.
-Difficult to tune the engine.
-Throttle curves are harder to set up.
-Not as powerful as glow.
-A governor is recommended (but not essential) to aid with the throttle curves.
-Vibration can lead to premature electronics failure.

I didn't sugar coat anything here. I have had my share of setup problems, a lot of it was not being familiar with the gasser heli. Do your research on setting them up and isolating vibrations and you will have a lot less trouble. I've got mine flying well now, but it was a long road to get it there. I haven't experienced any electronics issues besides my tail servo getting toasty, which may be from the vibration/torque from the bigger engine, but I sent it in to get checked out to be safe. You NEED to be VERY picky in making sure EVERYTHING that spins is balanced and you'll have a lot less problems with them.
Most of the cons would be problems due to poor setup. If you get your setup perfect, then they all go away and you'll have a beautiful flying, easy to maintain helicopter.

[superflyer]

cool tdswan. Did you yourself have alot of truoble tuning yours?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

I had some trouble, but it was because I'd get it the way I thought I wanted it, then I'd switch something and have to start from scratch tuning it again. I was re-tuning to fight a vibration I couldn't find. Every post I'd read elsewhere about vibrations stemmed from the engine tuning and I found out it wasn't the engine at all. It was a problem in the one-way bearing. I lubed it with grease when I should have used ATF. Once I got that squared away, life was good.

[superflyer]

so you dont have problems tuning it anymore?

Superflyer

[superflyer]

now like in this type of weather tdswan do you have trouble tuning?

Superflyer

[blax1]

Hey Td Good morning :)
I,ve been checking out the gassers on the Century web site, very interesting the base model is about $1300Aus plus electrics and radio of course, but not to bad concidering what you get :) The down side is they are out of stock of every model gasser they make??? I wonder what is going on there?? Maybe new models coming out :confused:
That'd be great, time will tell :)
Cheers Ralph

[tdswan]

Superflyer:
I don't have anymore problems tuning it. I haven't flown it since it's gotten cooler and dryer. It will probably only help with the power. It will be interesting to see what the winter brings if I decide to fly it in the winter. I'm on the fence there.

Blax:
As far as being out of stock, it's usually best to call. It may be just one part they're waiting on, in my case it was the clutch. I upgraded to the HD clutch and it was ready to go. I know they've just made a modification to the fan hub recently. They warrantied my old one with the updated one when I ran across a problem with it. Maybe they're waiting the get them into production. I'm just speculating, though. I'd call to find out availability and find out why it may be backordered.

[blax1]

Thanks Td
At the moment I'm upgrading my DF36 with the servo's & gyro off my Rex and fitting HS65MG, GY401 & S9650 servo on the Rex, until I get these sorted out and flying again, I cant justify purchasing another chopper until these are going again :( I've read your pro's and con's and I agree the initial set up of any Heli- is extremely important for controllable safe flight, this is even more so for a newbie, who may have limited skills to deal with a machine that, has some owner built in set up issues. If I do venture into petrol Heli-s the gasser really interests me because of its relative ease of operation and its shear size making the orientation of the aircraft easier it fly, which would be terrific as these smaller Heli-s can be difficult to orient when they are long way out :eek: .
I will probably have more questions for you down the road. :)
Thanks for you input I appreciate it. :)
Cheers Ralph

[superflyer]

cool,
ya i am defintly going to get this for my dad.

[tdswan]

I will probably have more questions for you down the road. :)
Thanks for you input I appreciate it. :)
Cheers Ralph

No problem. Always happy to answer them as well as I can. It's a learning experience for all of us. I'm still learning myself.

[superflyer]

ya thanks for the help. When i think of a question i'll let you know. I know this sounds a little silly, but when you put gas in it tdswan do you have 2 hook some kind of pumping system 2 the gas can like a nitro heli? If so can you post a pic of it for me?

Superflyer :)

[tdswan]

I just use a regular gas (petrol, Blax ;) ) and I pump it with a standard hand-crank like Hangar 9 sells. Make sure it's OK for gas. They make 2 different pumps, one for gas or glow and one for just glow. You also need to use tygon tubing for the lines to the carb and neoprene for the clunk line. Silicone would melt away from the gas.

[superflyer]

can i see a pic of the pump you have for the nitro one and the gas?
Mainly the nitro one.

Superflyer

[tdswan]

The gas and glow one are essentially the same outside. It's the insides that make it safe for gas.
This link will take you right to both: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=fuel+pump&CatId=

[superflyer]

cool thanks,
about how much are they?

[tdswan]

15.99 US for gas or glow, 13.99 for glow only.

[superflyer]

cool thats not bad! Do you have trouble starting it after about a week or 2 of not flying it?

Superflyer :D

[tdswan]

Nope, maybe an extra pull. The primer bulb really takes all the trouble out of it.

[superflyer]

cool,
is it hard to buy parts for it after you crash it twswan?

[tdswan]

Not terribly hard. I get my parts right from Century, but there's a few other distributors out there, but I find their web-sites hard to navigate, so I stick with the old stand-by. They ae more expensive, but it's mostly because it's a bigger helicopter.

[superflyer]

cool,\ypu have something wroing with your now you cant fly it right?

Superflyer :)

[tdswan]

Yeah, the tail servo was off. I just got it back today. haven't installed it yet. Then whe'll be airworthy again. Weather looks like crap for the near future, so I'm not in a hurry to get it done.

[superflyer]

ahh i see. What happend with the tail servo? Did it burn up or did u crash it? Just trying to gather the most info on it as i can so i do make a good purschase.

Superflyer :D

[tdswan]

No, it was just getting warmer than I liked it and Horizon Hobby said to send it in to have it checked out. All was well, I was just being on the safe side.

[superflyer]

Ohh i see. Better to be safe than sorry. They dont usally get warm on gas?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

They usually don't get that warm on a helicopter. It's not an issue of a gasser or not.

[superflyer]

huh. After how many flights did this happen?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

It was a new servo. I was just being cautious, man. It was just warmer than I expected. It's not because of it being a gasser, it's just something I noticed and wanted checked out. All is well now. Servo checked out fine.

[superflyer]

Well Tdswan looks like were gettin some spam in here.

[superflyer]

Did you have any trouble balinceing it?

Superflyer

[Helifino]

Did you have any trouble balinceing it?



Probably not as much trouble as you had spelling it :D
Just razzin you sf. :p

[superflyer]

Ohh im sorry. I should have checked my spelling. But any way td did you have any troble balenceing it?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

Not a lot of trouble, but balancing a gasser is much more involved than throwing together a 50-sized machine. The fan hub MUST be within .015" of PERFECT rotation, or "runout" which it is commonly referred to in gasser forums. You measure this by installing it semi-tight and rotate it using a dial indicator (pictured below) to see how close it is. If it's off by more than .015", you GENTLY tap the "high" side to bump it to center and re-check. You keep repeating it until you've got it under that measurement and tighten. THEN....You guessed it, re-check it AGAIN. If it's off once it's tighened, you loosen it and start it all over again. I got mine right relatively easily. This process alone could take you an hour to get perfect.

[superflyer]

Ya does sound harder to through together than a nitro.

Superflyer

[superflyer]

Now have you had a chance to fly it in really cold weather yet? :confused:

Superflyer

[superflyer]

Tdswan do they come completly unnesembled? Or are the together for the most part?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

It comes in kit form.
You can go to Century's site, the manual and everything is posted on this site.
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/helikits/cn1100Predator/cn1303/index.htm?currentid=87

Also, here's a thread someone posted about the build process.
http://www.rotorworks.net/showthread.php?t=49

[superflyer]

Cool Pretty Good looks to be. Hey i hope im not getting on your nerves. If i am please let me know and i'll stop. I'll have to read through that internet page when i get a minute. About how long did it take you to assemble yours? Any issues that stick out in your mind? If you please let me know.

Superflyer :D

[tdswan]

Most of the issues building it were from, like any helicopter, the vague instructions in the manual. Other than it having a gas engine, it's just another helicopter. Century makes a glow version of the same helicopter. No real issues stick out except shimming certain gears and mesh. Most of the issues are addressed in other gasser forums out there. Runryder's gasser forum has tons of gasser gurus and a few Century reps on there who are quick to answer any questions that I had.

[Helifino]

Man td, you've generated alot of interest in this thread, 717 views at last count.
Maybe the editors would let you do an article in the mag on your gasser! Of course, not without compensation. :rolleyes:

[superflyer]

I Hear you say TD that you run camping fuel in yours? Whats the advantage of runing that in it? And how can you run that in a gas engine?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

It is definately a conversation piece even at the field. I get asked if I brought it almost every time I'm out there. There is very little info on them on RCU or here. Lots of info on RunRyder, though. That's where I resolved all of my issues.

The thought of gas power intrigues plane and heli guys alike.

Camp fuel is just cleaner. Mixes and runs the same. It just doesn't smell like gas.

[superflyer]

Ohh Cool,
I dident know that it would run in those. But you can run normal gas correct?

[tdswan]

Yes, it's a gasser. Camper fuel or gas. It doesn't matter. Noone's proven otherwise.

[superflyer]

Cool. Thanks. Theres not many more gassers than the predators are there?

[tdswan]

There are several. I'm not familiar with any of them. Excel makes a gasser and Miniature aircraft makes a gasser and a couple of others, but like I said, I'm not familiar with them.

[superflyer]

I dont know if i asked you this yet Tdswan but what made you get gas over a nitro?

SF :D

[tdswan]

I've got an electric, a nitro and a gasser. Just wanted something different.

[blax1]

How about a turbine??? Td you could get the turbine thread going :D
Have a great day :)

[superflyer]

YA LOL

Superflyer

[tdswan]

Don't look for a turbine in my hangar any time soon! LOL

[superflyer]

Wish i had one ohh well. If you could get a turbine what would you get???


Superflyer

[superflyer]

Tdswan is camping fuel cheaper? How long will it fly on one tank of gas td?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

http://www.rchelimag.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5304#post5304

camper fuel is more expensive than gas.

[superflyer]

have you had yours even a year yet?
SF

[tdswan]

http://www.rchelimag.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1874#post1874

[superflyer]

Wow you got all of the answers 2 the question i have. Do you fell more confrtable with the raptor or the gasser you have?

Superflyer

[tdswan]

I answered this earlier. I'm beginning to think you're messing with me.

The most difficult aspect of flying it is the price. You can tend to be afraid of it. This is my problem with mine. I still have a ball flying it, but I'm not near as aggressive with it as my Raptor. If you can get past the fear, it's more stable than anything you'll fly out there.

[superflyer]

Sorry TD. We have jsut been at that fourm so long i dident rember. No Offence im not messing with you. Sorry for the trouble.

[superflyer]

If you could have went back and done it all again would you go with the same gasser?

SF

[tdswan]

Probably. I don't really have any regrets.

[superflyer]

Well thast good. Any regrets with the raptor?

Superflyer

[superflyer]

Hey Td i know this is off subject but about how many minuets do you get out of your tank on your raptor?

Superflyer :D

[Helifino]

Shoot me now....

[superflyer]

what the heck was that for? :confused: Dont get this thred off subject.

[superflyer]

But anyways td do you have any regrets on the raptor?

Superflyer :D

[tdswan]

No, no regrets on the Raptor. I get about 11-13 minutes on a tank.

That's 41 consecutive questions if my count is right.

[Helifino]

Hey Td i know this is off subject but
Dont get this thred off subject

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Helifino]

That's 41 consecutive questions if my count is right.

Who's counting...you counting...I'm not counting. :rolleyes:

[superflyer]

Im Not counting. I Guess Td quit checking this fourm. :(

Superflyer :D

[blax1]

With respect SF, You have been asking Td the same questions over and over, I think you hit the use by date. :(

[superflyer]

Yes your probaly right. Ohh well we can still talk in it.

Superflyer :D

[superflyer]

Only 100 Replys!!! LOL lets get this thread going!

[DJB2.0]

Only 100 Replys!!! LOL lets get this thread going!

Yeah, only 100. :confused:
101, now.

TD, what would happen if you tried to run Wildcat 30% in the gasser? ;)

[RKephart]

Well you guys have asked for it and you shall recieve. The new Predator Gasser NX is in the upcomming issue. I hope you all enjoy and I hope it anwsers all of your questions.

[RotorDoc]

Sounds great. I have had one of the original Predator GS's for a number of years now and found it to be maintenance free and flies 3D better then any of my 60's ever did. I have over 130 flights on it now and it has been far more then I expected (having previously owned 3 other gassers from other manufacturers - MinAir, JR and TSK)....without a doubt, my favorite gasser. :)

I power it with the smaller G231 as I felt it ran smoother then the Hanson 260, and I still found it to have a better 3D power perfomance then any of my 60's ever did... I was also very surprised how well it autos (I use the Rotor Tech 710 3D blades on it.). I think a lot of this great performance may is due to its' relatively light weight (mine, without fuel weihs in at only 12 lbs 6 oz....which is a lot less then some other gassers.)

I would have more flights on it, except that I had to also keep time for learning about electrics in the past 2 years. :)

Here are some ineresting videos orf the Predator GS in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNA_wWl2XxY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHOhC7F5tyw

[tdswan]

Hey RotorDoc! Glad to hear we have another gasser on the forum. I also love mine. I've let other guys (with other gassers) fly it and they're always impressed at how limber it is. It won't out-perform my Raptor 50, but anywhere I fly it I'll usually get a "I didn't know a gasser could do that!" out of a fellow heli guy.
I'm autoing mine with 680's on it and have no problems either.....except my recent botched auto in the vids section :o
TD, what would happen if you tried to run Wildcat 30% in the gasser?
Dan and his smart-alek comments! :rolleyes: :D

[RotorDoc]

tdswan,

If you like your Preddy on 680s, put some good 710's or 720's on it....like the Rotor Tech 7166 or 7201's. You will find it will really come alive - and feel much like your Rappy 50. And the autos will feel like you are cheating. :)

I found years ago, that the disc loading is just too high on those shorter 60 size blades.

The 680's on your gasser would be like using 530's or 550's on your Rappy 50.

[blax1]

720 +720 + say 200?? = 1640 mm :eek:

[RotorDoc]

Yep - that is why the Preddy GS has even a longer boom then any 90 nitro.

Then you can even get the bigger Condor version (for AP work) that uses from 800 to 830mm blades.

[tdswan]

I gave it some thought, but even with the 680's it'll still load up retty good so I figured the 680's would be enough.....I may try longer blades once I "need" to replace them. ;)

[DJB2.0]

:confused: I gave it some thought, but even with the 680's it'll still load up retty good so I figured the 680's would be enough.....I may try longer blades once I "need" to replace them. ;)


yeah, but they are Mavrikk G4 blades. I thought those were notorious for loading up.
Im in South Carolina right now, I'll be back 'up north this weekend.

If the weather is decent, I have a set of 690 and 710 V Blades.
What do ya say, throw them on, and at least see what happens?

Now, I dont know anything about gassers and what they are SUPPOSED to sound like, but to me, it didnt really sound like you were loading the engine up at all.

[tdswan]

Sure! I'd be up for giving them a try.
I just hope I don't get spoiled with them! :cool:

[WiscHeli]

youngblood flews are only $89 for 690s and 710s :D

[RotorDoc]

If you have the top end pitch set to an amount that just starts to bog the motor on a full 50 foot, straight up climb, then with longer blades, you will find that you will have to decrease the top end pitch a little to maintain the same rotor speed without bogging. But they will be creating more lift, even at a lesser amount of collective pitch.

So, once you have mounted the 710's, check the top end pitch, adjust accordingly, and hang on. :)

Gas engines produce their max HP at a lot lower rpm then nitro engines. But even more important, is that they produce substantialy more torque then do the nitro engines. So you may hear it "dig in and pull" and think it is bogging but if you had a tach and would measure the rotor speed, you would find that it would not be dropping off anywhere near as much as a nitro - and, any rotor speed that it may have lost, once unloaded again, will be regained faster then it would driven by a nitro engine.

That is why the throttle curve of a gasser is so different from that of its' nitro drinking brothers.

[almanac]

It has been very interesting following this gasser discussion. Very useful photos, too.

I will confess I find nitro smoke a bit off-putting. Longer flying time looks good, too. Aerial photography is my secondary interest.

Are there any slightly smaller gassers available? Something in the 600 class?

[tdswan]

There's nothing smaller that I am aware of yet. They do make an engine that will fit into a 90-sized motor mount, but I'm told that power is a bit on the disappointing side. I don't have many more particulars on that.

[RotorDoc]

tdswan,

Check out this thread, seems a lot of Predator gasser guys there.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t165069p4/?p=3144703#RR

[tdswan]

Oh yes, RR's where I absorbed most of my gasser knowledge. After I got my gasser, I went into the gasser forums and absorbed absolutely anything I could read. Because if it, I now have my gasser as silky smooth as a gasser can be.

[b.sly]

I just might have to get myself a gaser. My Ultrastick 120 has the airplane version of the same engine and I love it.