MD500 for a TREX 450

[kcgraves]

Figured I put this where it belonged instead of under the snow thread. As promised here are a couple of pictures of my tail servo mod. I might have to move it closer and/or turn the servo around when I actually put it in the fuse but it fits with no interference. The parts are the mount brackets from an SE V2 with two mounting holes and the carbon bracket is a modified 450 battery tray. Also here are some pics of the scale head I bought off ebay.

[blax1]

Looks great!!

Nice job on the servo mount, interesting to see a servo flipped up like that, that head looks nice as well, you'll have some fun setting that up, tracking comes to mind, 5 good quality blades, weigh them, sort out CofG, do all the balancing etc..... :)

[kcgraves]

Thanks Ralph. I cannot take credit for the servo mounting idea. I was surfing the net and found the idea here:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=50401&page=3

Yes, the head will be interesting. Luckily Ray Stacy, Kyle Stacy's father, has some experience with multiblade, flybarless heads and he is going to help me.

[vermonster]

Thanx for the pictures KC :D I found several pictures of how people mounted the tail servo. The one below looks the best, I think. I was thinking maybe going with something like these from servo city.

http://www.servocity.com/html/90_degree_universal.html

http://www.servocity.com/html/vertical_mount.html

I also want to try flipping the tail over.

[vermonster]

Here is another but not as neat.
Can you guys fix the size?

[kcgraves]

Thanx for the pictures KC :D I found several pictures of how people mounted the tail servo. The one below looks the best, I think. I was thinking maybe going with something like these from servo city.

http://www.servocity.com/html/90_degree_universal.html

http://www.servocity.com/html/vertical_mount.html

I also want to try flipping the tail over.

Sure, now you tell me. ;) The second one, the vertical_mount is what I was looking for. Couldn't find it so I made my own. Anything that keeps it below the tail should work fine.

[vermonster]

Sure, now you tell me. ;) The second one, the vertical_mount is what I was looking for. Couldn't find it so I made my own.

Sorry I just found those yesterday...:D

[elkarojo]

I present myself:Matias Tonelli'm from Argentina and I would tell my English pesimo RcTek GL I have a 450 and I am interested to know what people from other sides can come to know here and we have no knowledge about the helis 450.
matias salutes the "Argentine"

[vermonster]

Welcome elkarojo! What we are doing here is to get the tail servo parallel to the boom, either under or over. This is so we can install a scale fuselage over the T-Rex 450 pod and boom as seen in this picture.

[kcgraves]

Nice job on the servo mount, interesting to see a servo flipped up like that, that head looks nice as well, you'll have some fun setting that up, tracking comes to mind, 5 good quality blades, weigh them, sort out CofG, do all the balancing etc..... :)

I'm not starting with the best of the best blades, sure there will be accidents :eek: . Emailed Joe at TechModelProducts today about his Tech 315mm woodies. He is sending me two sets of six blades. He was nice enough to weigh them. Got two sets, each set of six weigh the same and between the sets they are only off by .1gram. Talk about customer service. :D

[vermonster]

Keith, I'm just wondering why your going with the 315's instead of the 325's.

[kcgraves]

Keith, I'm just wondering why your going with the 315's instead of the 325's.

Been doing some reading on the net and for five blades and a heavy head, that custom one I have is heavy, most people recommend 315s. I know bigger is more stable but for starters I'm going with the 315s. Other than that all I can say is "senior moment". :confused:

They also recommended a carbon tail boom, which I put on, because it is stronger than the stock one. It's only $$$.

[Rappy1]

Sweet head Kc!
look forward to watching how your heli turns out. I noticed on a few people here that running multi blade heads they seem to have a smaller blade size. Im not too sure why, but I also notice it happening on the larger scale ones as well

[kcgraves]

Been getting ready to put this head together and reading threads on the web. Got a question for the more knowledgeable. Do I really need something like a GU-365 to stablize this heli. Seen a lot of information about setting up pitch, throttle, etc. but not one of these people is using anything special for scale flying.

3-D flybarless yes, but not scale.

Thoughts on just flying it with five blades and everything else stock?

[vermonster]

Been getting ready to put this head together and reading threads on the web. Got a question for the more knowledgeable. Do I really need something like a GU-365 to stablize this heli. Seen a lot of information about setting up pitch, throttle, etc. but not one of these people is using anything special for scale flying.

3-D flybarless yes, but not scale.

Thoughts on just flying it with five blades and everything else stock?

After about 6 months of researching the 5 blade head this thread is the ticket,

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t410367p1

[kcgraves]

Thanks OD. I came across that thread a few months ago and couldn't find it again. I guess I'll give it try without the GU365 and see how it flies. Parts are cheap right. Will do it before I put it in the scale body for sure. I'm going to eventually put carbons on it but right now the woodies from Tech Model will be good, and cheap, enough for test flights.

Blades are all balanced. I just have to put the head on the heli and get everything aligned. Can't wait to try it.

[vermonster]

Thanks OD.
Blades are all balanced. I just have to put the head on the heli and get everything aligned. Can't wait to try it.

No problem, they are all flying without the GU365. I can't wait for you to fly it either.:D I started to order the rest of my parts to test fly before I put the 450 into the fuse. I'm getting the Heliartist 5 bladed rotor and 4 bladed tail rotor.

[vermonster]

Tail rotor :D

[kcgraves]

I can't wait for you to fly it either.:D

No, you go first. ;) I insist.

I'm getting the Heliartist 5 bladed rotor and 4 bladed tail rotor.

Let me know how that head works. I was going to get the Heliartist until I found the one I have on ebay at a good price. But, I have another 450. Going for the tail too, huh. I might do that later on for extra credit. :D

[kcgraves]

Ready for a test flight, now if the winds would stop. 20 to 30 with gusts over 40 MPH for two days. :(

[blax1]

Ready for a test flight, now if the winds would stop. 20 to 30 with gusts over 40 MPH for two days. :(

:( .........My advise is have a beer and wait........ :D


kc that looks truly awesome.... :cool: Are you going with the 4 blade TR?

[vermonster]

Ready for a test flight, now if the winds would stop. 20 to 30 with gusts over 40 MPH for two days. :(

Looks cool with the Tech blades.:cool: Did you get an instruction sheet with the head?

What's hanging off the horizontal fin?

[kcgraves]

kc that looks truly awesome.... Are you going with the 4 blade TR?

No 4 blade TR right now. Waiting for OD to get his first. Plus I learned years ago to keep the variables to a minimum when trying something new. Get the head working first. :D


Looks cool with the Tech blades.:cool: Did you get an instruction sheet with the head?

What's hanging off the horizontal fin?

No instructions. This is custom made and I got it off ebay. The head is a Century 5 blade tail rotor and the swash is a stock align one drilled out for five balls. Ball links are Thunder Tiger Raptor dual links. So I am on my own. But the RunRyder thread helped answer some questions. Just have to "wing" it. (If anyone has a parts list for this tail from Century I'd appreciate a copy of it, Century has not answered my emails.)

That item on the horizontal fin is just my velcro strip for the battery. Keeps it from getting lost between flights.

[kcgraves]

No wind, a little cold so I took it out. Never got off the ground. Tipped a little right then left, bang!!!! 5 blades and three blade grips broken. Need the part number for the blade grips if anybody has them, will try Century again on Monday via phone.

[vermonster]

No wind, a little cold so I took it out. Never got off the ground. Tipped a little right then left, bang!!!! 5 blades and three blade grips broken.

Oh no, that sucks :( What do you do next after the new parts?

[blax1]

No wind, a little cold so I took it out. Never got off the ground. Tipped a little right then left, bang!!!! 5 blades and three blade grips broken.


Bummer!!!!!! :mad:

Sounds like beer o'clock to me...Sorry kc...

Why did it do that?, Are you running a bit of expo on cyclic? Sounds like you need to tame that down a bit.OR was that the problem?

[kcgraves]

Not sure why, other than the ground was too close. :rolleyes: Or it was because my wife was watching.

Definitely more expo next time on the cyclic Ralph, and get it off the ground faster. When Ray Stacy had his flybarless helis out at the field he said you have to pop them up quickly as they are not very stable on the ground and will tilt.

I found the blade grips so I will be ordering the parts today.

[kcgraves]

Vermonster. If you have RealFlight 3.5 with add-on 5 go to the knifeedge forum and download the scale, 5 blade head MD500. I found it last night and was flying it around pretty good. The dynamics on lift off are pretty close to accurate as to what happened to mine. Now I know better what to expect. Assuming I had it set up right to begin with. ;)

Parts are in transit.

[vermonster]

Vermonster. The dynamics on lift off are pretty close to accurate as to what happened to mine. Now I know better what to expect. Assuming I had it set up right to begin with. ;)

Parts are in transit.

I have Phoenix KC that has multi blade rotor heads, but there is a difference between a performance heli and scale. What grips did you find to fit? Do you have to replace the ball links and rods?

[kcgraves]

I have Phoenix KC that has multi blade rotor heads, but there is a difference between a performance heli and scale. What grips did you find to fit? Do you have to replace the ball links and rods?

The RealFlight one is scale and in trying to read the specs it is bigger than a 90. Could be 1-to-1 scale but I was more interested in flying it around than what size it is.

The grips I got are the ones that came with it, Since this was suppose to be a Century 5-blade Scale Tail I found a manual for the Century 50-90 scale upgrade and in it was the part number for the grips and the bearings. The ball links are OK but I lost a ball somewhere in the driveway/yard. This has X-Cell double ball links on the grips, to get the distance right. Got those coming to. At least now I have the P/Ns for everything and spares.

Here is what the head was made from. Just the hub and grips were used, then the person I bought it from drilled the swash out and put the links, balls, and other parts on it. I got it cheap or I would have went with the one you are getting. This shows the 6 but I have the 5 blade.

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/rotorheads/Tailrotor.html?currentid=350

[vermonster]

The RealFlight one is scale and in trying to read the specs it is bigger than a 90. Could be 1-to-1 scale but I was more interested in flying it around than what size it is.
They are all about the same as far as flying. Here is a picture of the one I practice with it's a EC 135. I have the Hughs 500 but it's turbine. Sorry to ask so many questions about your set up, but now I have an idea about the head you using. :D

[kcgraves]

If you look at the first post of this thread I have two pictures of the head, off the heli. Here is a picture of the MD500 off the Knife Edge Forum.

[vermonster]

If you look at the first post of this thread I have two pictures of the head, off the heli. Here is a picture of the MD500 off the Knife Edge Forum.

Cool pic :) I got it now http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/g080.gif I think you called it a senior moment.

[kcgraves]

Cool pic :) I got it now http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/g080.gif I think you called it a senior moment.

Got what? What were we talking about?

[vermonster]

Got what? What were we talking about?

Just seen this http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a055.gif

[kcgraves]

Another attempt yesterday and another crash, but it did get off the ground for a few seconds. Very unstable and touchy. I am putting it back together and going to take it to the flying field in the next few weeks and let Ray Stacy fly it and see how it goes.

Speaking of Align problems. Just before I took off the heli started spinning in circles. Found the screw holding the tail rod linkage ball had come out. Found the tiny screw (amazing in it self) but when I went to put it back in I noticed there were no threads :eek: on it. So I got one with threads and put it in. It came assembled from Align (new SE I got for Christmas) and I didn't bother taking the ball off to check as it is screwed into plastic. All metal/metal ones I took off and locktited. So double check all screws or alleged screws on a new heli. You never know. I'm just glad it was on the ground when it fell out.

[blax1]

You'll sort it kc, she sounds like a hand full... :)

[vermonster]

You'll sort it kc, she sounds like a hand full... :)

Sure is, it's a whole different animal. Heavy blades, low pitch, high rotor speed and it just goes on and on. I'm still waiting for my rotor head it's back ordered. They have the tail rotor in stock I just need the head. I figured no sense in shipping the tail when I'm getting the head to.

Hang in there KC.:D

[kcgraves]

I'm not giving up. If it worked the first time where's the challenge? That is what makes this hobby fun and a great learning experience. If you never make a mistake you never learn anything, as long as you do learn something, right? ;)

[vermonster]

Dear customer, the product you want is instock now, you can click the URL below to see the details : http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3877


Yes!:D The rotor head is in stock. I'll be ordering today.

Hey kc what motor and pinion are you running?

[kcgraves]

Hey kc what motor and pinion are you running?[/color][/size][/font]

That's great it is now in stock. Get that order in.

I am using the stock SE motor, Align 450X 3550KV and a 9 tooth pinion. Hasn't really flown yet and I might have to switch to a 10 tooth. But what little time I did have it in the air the speed seemed OK for scale with woodies.

My other TREX has a 450XL, 3700KV, with a 10 tooth pinion and carbon blades and in my opinion it is too fast for scale. It screams.

[vermonster]

Let me know how that head works. I was going to get the Heliartist until I found the one I have on ebay at a good price. But, I have another 450. Going for the tail too, huh. I might do that later on for extra credit. :D


Parts are here Keith, Just in time for me to go back to work tomorrow.....:mad: That's OK though, starting this month we have to take a day a month off from work, due to the economy. Considering I only work the weekends........:D

[vermonster]

Tail rotor.......:D

[kcgraves]

Looks nicer than the web site pic. Good luck with it, can't wait to see it on and in the air.

Was a perfect weekend last Sunday to go to the field and get some help from people that have flown 3+ bladed heads but unfortunately I was sick. This weekend doesn't look good either to get out there but it looks nice enough to take the EVO out behind my house for its first flights of the season. :D

[vermonster]

Looks nicer than the web site pic.

I was surprised at the quality, they are really decent.....:)

[kcgraves]

I was surprised at the quality, they are really decent.....:)

It looks like it is fairly good quality. and it's nice and shiny. :cool:

[Tr1n1ty]

Hey guys, was just following your thread here because I am doing an MD 500 build myself.
I am using the Heli Artist fuse and HDX450 mechanics. I would like to suggest that you use a flight stablization unit that is made for multi-bladed rotors.

http://www.starwoodmodels.com/products/ht/

I was able to find a prebuilt five blade head at Helidirect.com and will be getting the stabilization system when my tax return comes in. Until then I will be flying the standard two bladed head.

KC, before you spend more time and valuable resources on additional crash repairs I would reccomend that you look into the stabilization system.

[vermonster]

Hey guys, was just following your thread here because I am doing an MD 500 build myself.
I am using the Heli Artist fuse and HDX450 mechanics. I would like to suggest that you use a flight stabilization unit that is made for multi-bladed rotors.

Hello Tr1n1ty and welcome to the forum. There are many people flying this set up without electronic stabilization. The trick is, to having the right head speed, blades and weight. You can view an excellent thread about this on RR.
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t410367p13/



http://runryder.com/helicopter/t410367p1/

[kcgraves]

Tr1n1ty, thanks for the info. I am actually going to try a Gaui GU-365 unit on it as soon as I get out to the flying field. Kyle Stacy's father Ray has one he is going to set up on my heli and let me borrow for a while. Kyle and Ray had several multiblade heads, 2, 4, and 5 without flybars last fall on a Gaui 250. While vermonster is correct that many people fly without them I want to have Ray try it out since he has much more experience than I do with flybarless heads.

There are some videos at the bottom of this page of Kyle flying flybarless heads.

http://www.kylerocks.com

[Tr1n1ty]

Vermonster, I think I will wait until I get the stabilization unit. I am not a big fan of extra stress.

KC, please let me know your thoughts on the Gaui unit as I was thinking about acquiring the same one.

[kcgraves]

KC, please let me know your thoughts on the Gaui unit as I was thinking about acquiring the same one.

Will do. Thought I might get it tomorrow but Ray won't be at the field tomorrow. I have seen it being flown on 2, 4, and 5 blade heads. Seems to work great.

[Rappy1]

I see there are some fairly fancy heads and tail rotors being posted here. I also was reading that your blades touched the ground KC and broke the grips? I take it these are metal parts. Are these heads rather fragile things as for the amount of times i have hit the dirt with my two blade head normaly the grips live but the feathering shaft turns into a banana.
Also, and i dont mean to hijack but what heli did you go with OD for your scale build. Any photos?

[vermonster]

Also, and i dont mean to hijack but what heli did you go with OD for your scale build. Any photos?
Your not hijacking Nathan. The "little scale" is a 450 Trex. Right now I'm tied up building 2 EVO 50's, I smoked the Caliber 30.:eek:

MD 500E with the 450 stuff inside.:D

[kcgraves]

I see there are some fairly fancy heads and tail rotors being posted here. I also was reading that your blades touched the ground KC and broke the grips? I take it these are metal parts. Are these heads rather fragile things as for the amount of times i have hit the dirt with my two blade head normaly the grips live but the feathering shaft turns into a banana.
Also, and i dont mean to hijack but what heli did you go with OD for your scale build. Any photos?

Hi Nathan,

The grips on mine are plastic junk. It was orig. a Century 5-blade tail rotor. I need to break one more century grip I have as a spare and then I'm switching to TREX 450 grips. Problem with the Century ones is it has a 2.5mm ball screw into very little plastic. One mild hit and the plastic breaks off and the ball is still on the link. The regular Align grips have more plastic around a 2mm screw.

Put a Gaui 365 module on it and took it to the field last Sunday. It hovered for several seconds and then started moving right too much and just went into some tall grass from about a foot up, broke a grip at the ball. But what we determined is the Gaui module needs thicker foam, lots of damping, and one or two blades were out of track. Going to try again with more foam and redo the blades. But it looks promising now that it may actually fly.

Same as OD though. It was on the top of my list but is now third behind getting the Raptor back in the air and building a Freya. That is the same MD500E body I have.

[Rappy1]

Md500 is a nice heli, it was my first pick until they were out of stock. Have you been learning without the body on? Soon i should be able to go back to my scale builds after looking at yours, it has given me some motivation. I think you both did the better of the options by buying a pre painted canopy. To me i have spent to much time fluffing about with paint colour options, so i have now picked two colours and i am going to stick to them. Goal to finish this weekend.

[kcgraves]

Md500 is a nice heli, it was my first pick until they were out of stock. Have you been learning without the body on? Soon i should be able to go back to my scale builds after looking at yours, it has given me some motivation. I think you both did the better of the options by buying a pre painted canopy. To me i have spent to much time fluffing about with paint colour options, so i have now picked two colours and i am going to stick to them. Goal to finish this weekend.

I'm not much of a painter so prepainted canopy was the way to go. I have had it in a box since last Oct./Nov. Got the 450SE that is going in it for Christmas. As soon as I see if this 5 blade head is working OK and I get some time on it I'll put it in the MD500 body. If not, I'll put the stock head on and go with that. Next year I'm thinking of taking one of my .50s and putting a scale body on it.

[kcgraves]

:D IT FLYS :D Thanks to Kyle and Ray Stacy for doing the first test flight. This is with the GAUI module installed. Needs trimming on a calm day, you can see the windsock, and heavier blades will help when I put it in the MD500E body.

[heli-cuzz]

That's aweswome, keith. Way:cool:
Does it sound any different?
What headspeed are you spinning?

[kcgraves]

That's aweswome, keith. Way:cool:
Does it sound any different?
What headspeed are you spinning?

Sounds a bit different, but it was windy and there were planes or helis up at the same time so I'll be able to tell better when it is calm and no one is around. It looks great flying though, as one guy said, it looks like a scale TREX ;) . I'm running around 2000 RPM. That is what I have read to keep it at with a five blade. Pitch is 0 to + 9 only. This is for nice easy scale.

I took the crappy century grips off yesterday and put Align 450 plastic ones on it, much less slop and stronger.

[Rappy1]

that multi blade head looks the part. I cant wait to see it with the md500 on it. thats real good news KC

[schluterdude]

way to go!!! looks great, can't wait to see her all dressed up and scootin' around!

[kcgraves]

Thanks Nathan and Schluterdude.

It is definitely a handful. Took it out this morning with only a slight breeze. Better than yesterday but I still want to get some serious stick time on it and get it a little more stable before putting the MD body on it. But at least now I can see that it will work. I can't wait to see it in the MD body but I don't want to rush it either and crash the MD.

[blax1]

Good looking heli, are you running some expo- to tame her down a bit?

Nice field to... :)

[kcgraves]

Good looking heli, are you running some expo- to tame her down a bit?

Nice field to... :)

Thanks. I had it at 50% but Ray backed it down to 30% saying it was too soft. I might turn it back up a bit. Him and Kyle are use to more aggressive flying then I am, especially for scale.

[Jeff Bulmer]

Way to go KC..looks awesome in the pics. the Rex should really look the part once you get the body on it :D

So the gain on the unit is rather touchy?

[kcgraves]

Way to go KC..looks awesome in the pics. the Rex should really look the part once you get the body on it :D

So the gain on the unit is rather touchy?

Thanks Jeff. With only three flights on it I'm sure it is mostly me. It is a 3 axis stabilizer and if you are not use to it you flight it thinking it doesn't know what it is doing and it fights back. Stick time should take care of that.

I will definitely have it put together for the end of August Heli Jamboree. Maybe it can be one of the announced demo flights. :cool:

[vermonster]

:D IT FLYS :D

Glad to hear that KC....:D Just got back from Maine. Looks like you had better weather all we had was rain and cold. Speaking of cold I'll have a Bud for you.

Looks Awesome!

[kcgraves]

Just got back from Maine.
I'll be there a week from Sunday. Can't wait.

Yep, time for a Guinness.

But, before I go, here is some more info on setting up phasing on a 5-blade.
http://scalehelicopters.org/setting.htm

[vermonster]

I'll be there a week from Sunday. Can't wait.

Yep, time for a Guinness.

But, before I go, here is some more info on setting up phasing on a 5-blade.
http://scalehelicopters.org/setting.htm

Thanx for the link. Good Info! Have a good time in Maine. The lobster is a real deal there.:D

[cbflys]

Maine must be the hot ticket. We're there right now. We had the most delicious clam chowder for lunch.

[kcgraves]

Maine must be the hot ticket. We're there right now. We had the most delicious clam chowder for lunch.

Went there two years ago for the first time, friends with a cottage invited us, and now it looks like a yearly vacation spot. Nice place and no cell phones, cable/dish TV, internet, etc. Just relax, read, walk the dog, and watch dvd movies. Oh yea, and the seafood!!!