T-rex 500 glitches

[Dan]

The Saturday before last I finished my T-rex 500. I took it out in front of my house and test hovered it and could not believe how solid it was. I hovered for 6 minutes, charged it up and did it again. By then it was getting dark so I waited until Sunday morning to go to the flying field.

On Sunday morning it was below freezing but no wind. I flew the heli again and for about 2 minutes I was in heaven. Then it started glitching. It was 50 feet in the air and at the far end of the field when I noticed. I tried to land it but it suddenly went to full power and flipped over. I had no control and through the thottle switch to kill the motor. It went in upsidedown at full thottle and stayed at full thottle jumping around throwing up parts for about 3 seconds.

I ordered the $200 worth of replacement parts and while I was waiting for them to come in I started searching the internet for understanding and solutions for the problem. I found a lot of people have had the same problem. I saw videos posted showing meters and sparks. There were postings saying it was static from the belt. There were postings saying it was static for the plastic tail blades and there were postings saying it was static from the plastic main gear. There were instuctions on grounding systems. There were claims that the belt was made out of the wrong material, and there was an endly list of sprays to put on the belt to solve the problem.

The heli is now repaired but I am afraid to fly it. When I run it on the bench without blades it is rock solid. When I put the tail blades on it it started to glitch. I'm using a Spektrum 6200 receiver, 4 S9650 servo's, a 401 gyro, stock motor and the stock ESC with a 10 amp E-flite battery eliminator. The power wire is disconnected on the stock ESC.

Does anyone know a real fix for this problem. I have 5 other helicopters including a T-rex 450 SE V1. They all fly great so I believe I have assembled it and set it up correctly but I am stumped.

[cbflys]

Static build up is a very real problem. And the lower the humidity, the worse it gets. Read up on proper grounding of the pulleys, frame, tail boom, and motor mount. Also, spraying the belt wiith graphite powder or silicone based spray will do wonders.

Also can try relocating the receiver.

[Dan]

Thank you cbflys

I ordered a metal tail assembly and I'll remove paint to groung the rear pully. The tail boom mounting block to the frame is plastic so I'll need to run a wire to ground the front pully. The motor mount is metal and the frame is carbon fiber so I'll test for electrical contact between the motor and frame but I'm betting that it is already there.

Will I need to ground to the speed controller? I saw where some people have everything grounded with a home made harness. I don't know where to stop. Other people said just spray the belt and you are done.

[RKephart]

Here at the office we use static guard. We have had several problems with tail glitches on several models including the Logo 500 and the T-Rex 500. A little spray down the boom while the belt is spinning took care of the problem's we were seeing. The T-REX 500 is known to have problems with the 6200 receiver. If you want a worry free system I would switch to an AR7000 and spray down that belt. I suggested spraying down the belt every dozen flights or so to be on the safe side. G-Force also sells a fix for the static by using a static wick that rides on the belt grounding to the frame. This will prevent static build up that can cause glitches in your receiver. Hope this helps :D

[Dan]

Thank you, Thank you

Static Guard sounds like a good clean solution and this is the first time I've heard it and I've read 100's of posts in other forums.

I'm going to forget about internet seaches for my problems. If I don't see it here I'll just ask again. I would think that using Static Guard every dozen flites would eleminate the need for grounding

Has RC Heli magazine ever done an article on static problems? In my 1 year of flying this is the first time I've come across it yet it is a real problem.

[Dan]

I guy like me who flies alone learns everything he knows about flying from reading RC Heli magazine and experience. The problem with learning from experience is you always get the experience right after you needed it. What I learn from the magazine is a lot less expensive.

Thank you again.

[RKephart]

No problem Dan, we are here to help. If you ever have any questions that might save you money, jump on the forum. I hope this solves your problem and you have nothing but good luck with your new 500. ;)

[Shawn K]

Ryan,

You know what else worked really well on my Evo 50 tail belt? Pam brand non-stick cooking spray. No joke. :p

[tdswan]

Now you're cookin' with Pam!

[Dan]

Last night I installed the metal tail assembly on my Trex 500 and sprayed the belt with Static Guard. I spooled up the heli and had no glitching.

Thank you all.

Now I wondering about the difference between the 6200 and 7000 receivers in the Trex 500. All 6 of the Trex 500's sold by my LHS were sold with Spektrum 6200 receivers. I'm thinking that most of the Trex 500's that have been sold everywhere have been sold with Spektrum 6200 receivers. So if more then half of all Trex 500's have 6200 receivers in them it would follow that more then half of the helicopters with glitches had 6200 receivers and that the receivers have nothing to do with the problem.

Is there any difference in the specs of the 6200 and 7000 receivers other than the extra channel that make the 7000 a better or more bullet proof product? Have the 6200's failed where the 7000's worked in any other aircraft that anyone knows about? If there is other examples or different spec's I'll buy one today, but if there isn't I might try flying again with the 6200.

[cbflys]

I have also read about people complaining about the AR6200 receiver. Unfortunately, the only one who can answer your question is Spektrum. I'd recommend calling Horizon Hobby tech support and putting that question to them.

Personally, I'd be suprised if there was a difference between the two other than the extra channel on the AR7000.

[Dan]

cbflys

Have you heard anything bad about the AR6200 that relates to performance in any helicopter other than the Trex 500? I haven't found anything yet but it is such a new product that I'm not sure anyone was using them last summer.

It is almost as if there is a large group of us who purchased the first Spektrum 6 radios with our Trex 450 SE's, then up-graded to the Spektrum 7 when it came out for the Trex 600. We are now having our first requirement for an addtional bigger receiver with the Trex 500 and the AR6200 was the right choice for a 6 channel helicopter.

I don't like giving up on a new product before giving it a fair try but for a price difference of only about $20.00 maybe the AR6200 is a waste of money.

I think I just talked myself into buying the AR7000.

[cbflys]

I have no personal experience with an AR6200. I have two AR7000 receivers and they have been working great. One is in an electric (not a TRex) and the other is in a TRex 600N.

One thing good about the AR7000 is that you can use the Spektrum Flight Log device. This device will record receiver performance during your flight. Things like antenna fades, packet drops, and failsafe conditions will be reported if they are encountered during flight. You can use this information to determine if you might possibly need to relocate one or both of the receivers. Additionally, the Eagletree Systems eLogger V3 can record the same information as the Spektrum Flight Log when plugged into an AR7000 receiver. So for that reason alone, I think the AR7000 is a better choice.

But again, it won't hurt to give Horizon Tech Support a call with your concerns. Let us know what they tell you.

[Dan]

cbflys,

I got on the phone just now with Horizon Tech Support and they assured me that the AR7000 and the AR6200 were the same receiver except for the difference of 1 channel. They said the specs on both receivers were identical except for a channel 7. They said it was Horizon's position that the AR6200 should be used in any aircraft that does not require a 7th channel and it would perform the same as the AR7000.

I told him my problem and he said it is not the receiver. For some reason I don't feel any better. I think I am going to retire my AR6200 until somebody else proves that it is not the problem. I'm sure I'm going to need another receiver sometime in the near future so I might as well buy it now.

I also like the idea of the flite logger and I'll pick one up while I'm getting the new receiver.

Does the flite logger need the 7th channel or can I plug it into the battery connection on my helicopters that don't have a separate BEC?

[cbflys]

When you buy an AR7000, you have to make sure it's one of the newer ones. The older AR7000 receivers do not support the Flight Log. You can tell by looking at the label. The newer ones clearly say 'data' on the label by the battery port.

This is where the flight log must plug into. If you're using the receiver in an electric, then you have no issue. Just plug the Flight Log into the battery/data slot. On a nitro heli, you still need to plug the Flight Log into the battery/data slot, so just move the battery plug to an open channel.

[Dan]

Thank you for your time and advise.

I have got to learn to take my time with this stuff. I had just found an ad on E-bay from John's Hobby World for the AR7000 DSM2 part #SPM6070 for $72.95 + $5.95 shipping with a quanity of 80 available. I ordered one having already ordered the Spektrum Flight Log from Advantage Hobby for $24.95 with free shipping. After reading your last response I'm pretty sure one of those items is not going to work with the other.

I went to the Spektrum site and saw they did not change the model number on the AR7000 when they added the data port feature. :eek:

The ad from John's Hobby World says these are new, not refurbished, AR7000 receivers picked up from Spektrum at a special price. Boy do I feel dumb :(

[cbflys]

Fortunately, you are not out of luck. If you get the old AR7000 you can send it in to Horizon and they will update it free of charge. The update will not only give you Flight Log support, but it will also give you the 'Quick Connect' feature. Turn around time has been under a week.

[Dan]

That is good news! And maybe while I'm waiting for the turn around on that I'll fly the Trex 500 with the AR6200 this weekend and let you know how it goes, what's the worst that could happen? I'll post a picture either way.

[helifreak5623]

I'm sorry about the glitches you've had, but it sounds like you've got it solved. Pictures would be great. The answer to your first question is that the thing that happened the first time could happen again :eek: , but from what it sounds like, it probably won't. Can't wait to see pictures of you bird.

[Dan]

I received my AR7000 and Flight Log unit. The AR7000 was one of the new ones with the Battery/Data port on it. For now I installed the Flight Log on the Heli as it has the only receiver I own that it will work with.

I got to thinking about it and the AR6200 has only been out for a little while and the AR7000 was in most of the helicopters that won contests last year so it should be an easy choice on which one to use.

I did fly the Trex 500 on Friday with the AR6200 and it worked fine but I changed it anyway just to be safe and to be able to play with the Flight Log.

I'll try to get someone to take a picture of the Trex 500 on the next flight. For now here are pictures of my radio and ESC installation and a picture of 4 of 12 helicopters I'm now flying.

[chch-trex]

Hmmmm - I just purchased 2 AR6200's (1 for my trex500) and another spare
I have howerver been using the AR6100 up until now and have had now issues - this is a stock 500 too... I have mounted the 6100 on top by the tail block, perhaps it's too far away from "Whatever" to get effected??? Thoughts?
Shall I...
1 stay with the 6100
or
2 install the 6200

Hmmmmmm

[Blacktitanium]

Hmmmm - I just purchased 2 AR6200's (1 for my trex500) and another spare
I have howerver been using the AR6100 up until now and have had now issues - this is a stock 500 too... I have mounted the 6100 on top by the tail block, perhaps it's too far away from "Whatever" to get effected??? Thoughts?
Shall I...
1 stay with the 6100
or
2 install the 6200

Hmmmmmm

The receiver is highly susceptible to a ESD blackout, when mounted on the top of the tail boom, especially if you haven't performed the tail boom ground mod.
I learned that the hard way!

Mount that receiver 6100/6200 under the receiver tray or on the rear bottom tray!
Do the tail boom ground and motor mount ground mods, and you'll have no worries.

I have experienced the receiver blackouts and tail twitches, prior to performing the grounding mods, that resulted into crashing.
Since performing the grounding mods, I have not had any problems, I can now fly my 500 fearlessly!


-Kip

[chch-trex]

okies.. will do.
now the wire going from the motor mount is to the tail, correct??
just std wire, can I use an old servo wire, or is there a certian gauge to use?

Cheers
Mike

PS - just looked at the pics... nice build by the way

[Dan]

I put the metal tail option on but never did anything else once I got the tip about Static Guard. It is a lot easier to apply the static guard when the metal tail rotor mount is installed but my 500 is rock solid now and I'm not doing anything else except putting the can of Static Guard in my flight box.

[helifreak5623]

That's interesting. I had never heard of static being a problem. I'll have to look into some static guard for myself :). Good luck with your T-Rex 500.

[Br3tt]

Is this much of a problem on 450s? I've been having a problem lately with my servos jumping around and the tail twitching intermittently.

[Dan]

It sure sounds like you are having a glitching problem but I have not heard of it being caused by static on a 450.

What heli is it and what radio are you using and is the problem something that came up after a while? We need that info before we can start making suggestions.

[Br3tt]

It's an hdx 450 but I have a plastic tail from an xl. I'm using a DX6 with an AR6000 rx. The rx is at the back bottom of the frame and the esc is at the front outside of the frame. Sometimes it works just beautifully but other times all of the servos start twitching at the same time. The weird thing is that it just does it sometimes which is why I was wondering about the static problem.

[Dan]

The simple thing to do to find out if it's static is to spray Static Guard down the tail shaft and see if it stops. If it stops you have a static problem. If it doesn't you need to check all of your wiring and make sure no wires are rubbing against moving parts and insulation is coming off somewhere.