Schluter Champion take first place in FAI contest!

[tdswan]

Just kidding! Thought I'd have some fun! ;)

[Shawn K]

The problem, Troy, is that I don't think many people here would know what you were talking about. ;)

[tdswan]

Yes, I should have explained that you gotta read around the 60-90 section to get the joke. :D

[bboy]

Dont be modest Shawn wasn't it you who was flying this badboy to victory ":D" notice the stickers;)

[Shawn K]

I wouldn't mind having a few of the older top-shelf machines. Schluter Champion, GMP Competitor, GMP King Cobra (not quite top-shelf, but I'd still like to have it)... I think a lot of those birds would work surprisingly well with modern electronics and slight modifications.

Who's bird is that?

[bboy]

I dont know I just found it on google image thought it was cool with the stickers

[jschief]

I have a copy of that Schluter book in the photo. You do not see some of those old machines anymore.

[RotorDoc]

tdswan

LOL :)

Shawn,

I have a lot of soft spots in my heart for some of the old helis I flew back then. But I certainly would not want to compete with any of them today...even with new engines, radios and gyros. They would not be able to take the uch greater flight loads we impose on our helis today. Even with a LOT of maintenance, they still would not be reliable enough to be competitive.

There have been a lot of imrovements both in the design and the component strength since then.

For example, the swashplate on my Champion had the lower ball on the lower star coming straight on the same plane as that star. Consequently they sat about 3/8" below those on the inner star. I am sure you can see the interactions this can cause. One of the BIG improvements, for example, with my first X-Cell, was the swashplate, which was like all the ones we have today, were the lower star is machines so that the balls ride higher on the outside diameter, in the same plane as those on the inner star.

The collective pitch was controlled by a 2mm rod that had two big bends at the top. This reesulted in a lot of flex (this would make any collective pump maneuvers of today very interesting to perform) during rapid collective inputs and would result in rapid metal fatique failures of this control rod. This rod rode up and down in a slot machined into the mainshaft, I am sure some vibrations caused steel on steel RF glitches that caused us a lot of headaches at the time.

The tail boom was only supported in the vertical plain by an aluminum U bracket (like those you can buy at your local Home Depot) that was actually secured to the tail boom with a muffler clamp!! As there was no lateral support, I am sure, that many of the even basic pirouetting manuevers we do today would cause the tail boom to flex the back of the frame so badly, that it would continually cause the front pinion to temporarily come so far off alignment with the crown gear, that it would be stripping every flight!

The best type of wire drive is the wire-in-tube type, But even those would not be able to take what we throw at them with a 60 or 90 power system today. Again I doubt if my Champions tail drive system could survive more then a few flights - probably would have drive failures for every gallon of fuel burned, never mind the havoc it would create trying to set the gyros!

These are just a few of the major areas of the heli that would fail in short order, but there are others. I will say that I believe that its' "tank-like" machined metal tail gearbox would probably be one of the only areas that could take the forces we throw at our helis every flight - even with sport type of aerobatics.

But Yes, I would also like to see how much better they would fly with our new radios, servos and gyros. NO doubt that they would fly better. But there is no way that my Champion could take even sport 3D with out regular failures or lot of maintenance (component changes after every 4 or 5 flights).

[Shawn K]

I'm well aware of how the older machines were designed. ;) There's no doubt that out-of-line swashplates, wire drive tails, and other vintage standards would be ill-equipped for today's rabid 3D. However, there are other ways to fly a helicopter besides throwing it at the ground. :p

There's not a doubt in my mind that you could take a Champion, Superior, Competitor, or other such machine, fit it with modern electronics, and make a decent showing at an AMA Class 1-2 event, and maybe even finish well in Class 3 if you played to the machine's strengths. Will it be maintenance-free? No way. Will you become a World Champion with a 20-year old design? Not a chance. Could you have fun and maybe turn a head or two along the way? I bet you could. ;)

I'll grant you, though... the old days are a nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there anymore.

One of these days, I'm going to resurrect a Competitor or King Cobra and keep it in top shape, so that I can fly it the way people were flying them back in the day. It's just like wanting to rebuild old cars - it has value simply because of the individual worth. And with the GMP machines, you'd be surprised how much commonality there is with modern Hirobo hardware. It's kind of like a living history lesson.

[RotorDoc]

Shawn,

I agree with you 100%. There are many ways, other then 3D, to enjoy R/C heli flying. Just because someone is not flying 3D, does not mean that he is not enjoying his flight as much as the fellow who is. Heck, when I think seriously about it, the times I came home from the field the most pumped, was when I was just learning to hover and fly basic FFF. And all one has to do, is look at the perma-grin glued to the newbies face, when he gets into his car for the drive back home, to realize how much fun he had that day. :)

And for me nostalgia helis would certainly be of interest also.

As for the Champion and 3D or even todays FAI schedule A (never mind B or C), I am sure we all agree, that it would be too limited an airframe to be competitive. That is why I was so surprised that the guru/editor of another magazine thought it would still be competitive.

I love your expression " ... the old days are a nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there anymore."

But it seems there are a number of such people in another forum, who are still living there. :)

[Ah Clem]

Those were nice flying helicopters, for their time.

I still want to resurrect a Falcon 808 at some point. I am just starting to work on an American R/C Commander (much more primative than the Schluter Champion).

Also scheduled for eventual restoration are a Cricket and a Helibably.

[Dan]

Has anyone ever been successful flying a Helibaby? That was my first helicopter and I was never able to get it to fly. I had a lot of very experienced people helping me but I killed more G.I. Joes in that Helicopter then I care to think about. I don't know who remembers but in had a seat for a G.I Joe doll and was even balanced for one.

Once I moved up to the Heliboy and a 7 channel radio I was able to fly but that Helibaby with no gyro, a 4 channel radio and the mechanical tail compensator was not a good investment for me.

[cbflys]

I had one back in the mid to late 70's. I had an O.S. .40 in it. I still remember that stupid litte green belt that you had to start it with. It was controlled by a Heathkit 4 channel radio that I had built with 4 Kraft KPS 14II servos. Anyway, I was able to get it to hover and creep around in slow FF. But never anything more than that. I also did not have a gyro in it.

[Dan]

I came very close to buying and building that Heathkit radio myself to fly my Falcon Jr. with an O49 engine. Instead I ended up using a pulse radio and a wind-up escapement. That, like my Helibaby was not a successful venture.

My Falcon Sr. with an O.S. 40 and a 4 channel Futaba radio a few years later was a big success.

Now do I bring my Heliboy home from the office, install a Spektrum receiver and a Futaba gyro? Then I can bring it over to Wantagh Park and see if cbflys wants to meet me there to repeat history.

I’m pretty sure the mainshaft is 10mm so I could cheat and take the head off my T-rex 500, put some 600 CF blades on it and wow everyone at the field.

[cbflys]

Dan, check your PM ...

[Ah Clem]

I flew the Helibaby a lot-it was my favorite for quite a while. It flew better than the Revolution I, once it was equipped with the wide, yellow (supposedly aerobatic) yellow paddles from American R/C.

It flew even better when I installed a Schluter "S" head on it (full flapping and swinging) although it did tend to nod quite a bit.

I still have it, although it is in pretty sad shape, given that I let a friend fly it and he dorked it, 25 years or so ago. I will resurrect it, at some point.

[Dan]

100% of the replacements parts for your Heli-Baby are available at this site.

http://www.minicopter.de/helibaby/en/nachbau_e.html

They are not too expensive but I don't know how long they will be available. I just ordered the whole helicopter for $600.00. You may want to do an inventory of your damaged Heli-Baby parts and order them while you can get them.

mkoutnik found the site and posted it. I should have a new complete Heli-Baby next week.