issue #6 - equal blade tightness

[kcasner]

Hello,

The theory on this is correct; however, it doesn't work because of basic physics. Here is why:

1. In order for the applied force of the two blades to equally move, the same friction would need to be applied to the main shaft vs the blade grips to the blades. Even then it wouldn't work because when the blade is properly tightened in the grip, it tends to 'catch and move' in the grip when moved.

2. If you used an oz/in torque wrench to assure both grips were evenly tightened perfectly, you would find that if you apply this theory, one blade would move first and the other wouldn't and the blade that moves wouldn't always be the same.

3. Moisture, exhaust oils, dust, etc... All tend to collect and constantly change the friction between the blade and the grip.

The only way to make sure the blades are evently tightened in the grips would be to use an oz/in torque wrench. Even then, one may feel lose or tight vs the other due to problem #3.

Hope this helps,

-Kevin

[helipilot2]

My question is; How tight the blades should be? Do they need to lead/lag? Do they need to be loose enough so the centrifugal forces keep them equally stretched out? Just curious..

Thanks

JT

[tdswan]

Tight enough so that if you hold it on it's side and bump it, they won't move.

[raptor bob]

I was just writing to say that the method stated in the magazine for blade tightening is not possible. Maybe in the future you should try it first before putting these suggestions in print: it's misleading.

[AaronS]

Raptor Bob, Kcasner, first of all, thanks for reading and participating on our forum. With that said, I have to disagree. I have been flying for more than 8 years and have used this method to find equal tension for several years. This method can be used in combination with other methods to ensure equal tension. Perhaps the tip could have been worded better to say that it helps to provide a feel for which blade is tighter, but I do not think it is fair to say we did not test our own tip. We try very hard to bring you the best, most accurate, and most up to date information on radio control helicopters that you can get.
again, thanks for reading

[Motions]

I agree that it is a fine tip and it does work. Personally, I have always used the "feel" method but your tip is probably more accurate.

[kcasner]

Raptor Bob, Kcasner, first of all, thanks for reading and participating on our forum. With that said, I have to disagree. I have been flying for more than 8 years and have used this method to find equal tension for several years. This method can be used in combination with other methods to ensure equal tension. Perhaps the tip could have been worded better to say that it helps to provide a feel for which blade is tighter, but I do not think it is fair to say we did not test our own tip. We try very hard to bring you the best, most accurate, and most up to date information on radio control helicopters that you can get.
again, thanks for reading

It's my pleasure, it's an excellent magazine. However, this tip is misleading. By the time you get it to appear working, your blades are going to be unevenly tight and/or extremely loose. It won't keep any pilot out of the air, or being an excellent pilot for 8yrs... but it doesn't mean your blades are evenly tight. Not to mention the many technical reasons why that I provided which can't be argued. They are just facts.

You can never have equal blade grip finding it by friction... friction is flawed in itself. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be torque wrenches and spec's on anything in the world.

I respect your bias opinion... but I will have to agree to dissagree based on real world facts.

[kcasner]

I'd like to add:

If you don't have an oz/in torque wrench handy (they are expensive) the method of tapping the nose against the ground when the blades are horizontally opposed works best.

This jolts both blades evenly to break them lose to move, and apply's even weight downward on both blades. When the blade's come to a stop, the angle of the blade grips vs the blades should be the same and/or the distance from the end of the tips to the ground should be the same when the head is still perfectly horizontal.

keep in mind; this isn't perfect either due to reason #3 on my first post.

This is exactly what tdswan was stating, just in more depth.

[MikeV]

I think we just found a new Quick Tip for next month.

Thanks Kevin.

Like Aaron mentioned earlier, I think the tip could have just been worded a little differently. If your buddy, as referenced in the tip, is keeping the head steady and not just the helicopter than I see no problems at all. We'll have to clarify that next month.

[kcasner]

I think we just found a new Quick Tip for next month.

Thanks Kevin.

Like Aaron mentioned earlier, I think the tip could have just been worded a little differently. If your buddy, as referenced in the tip, is keeping the head steady and not just the helicopter than I see no problems at all. We'll have to clarify that next month.

Your welcome, and thanks again for an excellent mag.

[raptor bob]

I agree, this is an excellent magazine; however, I must disagree with this blade tightening method. Perhaps "Motions" could explain further how it works for him: what kind of helicopter and blades he uses? Personally, I have three Raptors: two 50's and a 30. They all have different blades: one 50 has Vblades, the other has TT carbons, and the 30 has MAH blades. It is impossible to get an accurate balance of tightness on any of them using this method, unless you're suggesting we fly with the blades so loose they fall down when tipping the heli sideways or nose down with the blades parallel to the ground. Initially I was excited to try this out and when it didn't work on one heli I tried the others. It simply doesn't work. I have always used the "bump" method for tightening the blades and while that probably isn't perfect either, it's the best way I've found so far. By the way, I even tried an oz/in torque wrench to get them evenly tightened and still one blade always collapsed first. Just wanted to clarify my findings.

[Motions]

The torque wrench method is not an accurate way to achieve equal blade tightness. True, the bolts will be equal but the grip tension will sometimes not be equal.

I also use the bump method (turn model on the side and give it a jerk) to determine blade tightness. Then I wiggle the blades back and forth in the grips to "feel" how equal they are and make minor adjustments. If you've been doing it long enough you get a feel for it.

I use this method on my Rap50 with MAH blades. I also have a Trex with Hyperion blades but mainly adjust those by feel.

This method may not work for someone just starting out, I've just been doing it long enough to just "know" when the blades are right. The tips in the magazine are meant to be very helpful tools for beginners and some people have absolutely no starting point. The magazine helps those people a great deal.

[helipilot2]

Calm down people!!!! :-) we are becoming way too critical and way toooo scientific on something simple here.

Not all tips work for everyone... The first tip (the one printed in the magazine) worked fine for me.The second tip didn't.....

It doesn't have to become a college physiscs class!! :-)

Now get the darn thing, put some fuel in it ....and gohave some fun!!!

[kcasner]

raptor bob/motion,

The only way to make sure the blades are evently tightened in the grips would be to use an oz/in torque wrench. Even then, one may feel lose or tight vs the other due to problem #3.
In my first post =)

helipilot2 made a good point, but keep in mind... it's conversations like this that helps everyone, by gathering opinions/suggestions that develop more profound tips. Plus, to some the engineering and mechanical aspect's of this hobby is fun to explore... not just flying ;P

[Motions]

I agree.

The tips in the magazine are written mainly for the beginner and helps provide some starting point. If your not a beginner, then most likely you have figured out these tips already or established your own methods.

Tips are suggestions, nothing more. I know that people tend to think it's a rule and completely accurate because they see it in a magazine but that's not always the case. The editors and writers are pilots too and are just sharing their experiences.

Is it just me, or is it starting to feel like RR in here? :D

[kcasner]

I agree.

Is it just me, or is it starting to feel like RR in here? :D

hahahahahaha

[tdswan]

I've been rolling my eyes at this post for a while now.....

I agree with Motions, guys.....What are we bothering with such a moot point on here for? This magazine was just trying to get someone who doesn't know how tight they should have their blades at least "in the ballpark". Let's not turn this into rocket science. The only thing most of the beginners want is to get their setups in a safe condition and get learning. Let's not start splitting hairs here. If you think the advice will result in an unsafe condition, speak up. If you don't use the method that others use, great! Use what works for you and stop being such a thorn in someone's side at the magazine.

[kcasner]

I've been rolling my eyes at this post for a while now.....

I agree with Motions, guys.....What are we bothering with such a moot point on here for? This magazine was just trying to get someone who doesn't know how tight they should have their blades at least "in the ballpark". Let's not turn this into rocket science. The only thing most of the beginners want is to get their setups in a safe condition and get learning. Let's not start splitting hairs here. If you think the advice will result in an unsafe condition, speak up. If you don't use the method that others use, great! Use what works for you and stop being such a thorn in someone's side at the magazine.

From your post, you miss-read or don't understand the tip. It's not to check proper blade tightness at all. It's to make sure both blades are equally tight.

I can honestly say, your post is a prime example on why discussions such as this are brought up... Missleading tips can cause for a very unsafe situation, especially to beginners, and if you were to follow this tip your blades would be extremely loose as I said in my second post.

But regardless, what really needs to be done here is to notice that it's a discussion... nothing more. It appears to me that it's not the dicussion that's getting bent out of shape, but the defensive posts who miss interpret the purpose of such threads.

If it wasn't for discussion threads such as these, I wouldn't know what I do today and it would make this hobby even more difficult than it already is.

Try thinking outside the box, it really is nice out there =P

[Motions]

You made a very good point. I think most of us were talking about "equal" tightness while some were talking about "proper" tightness. Yes, these are two different things. The tip in the magazine relates to "equal" tightness and doesn't indicate how tight the blades should be.

As Troy stated, tighten the blades until they don't drop when the model is turned sideways and given a small jerk. Then you can use the tightness tip to determine if they are equal.

[tdswan]

I just hope that because of this, oz.in. torque wrench sales won't go through the roof! :p
I apologize if it appeared that I was half-cocked. I'm not above admitting I was on the "short" side with you....For that, I apologize. :o I hope this does not cause tension in the future.
Your opinions will undoubtedly bring new light to the forum.

[Helifino]

Scatola, che scatola?

Translation below :eek:

[tdswan]

Scatola, che scatola?

huh? :confused:

[Motions]

I think he's offering you a Coca-Cola. :D

[Helifino]

Try thinking outside the box, it really is nice out there

Box, what box?
We don't need no stinking boxes! :p

[Helifino]

Being one to not know when to keep my mouth shut, and risk being banned from this forum, I have to get this off my chest. If this is deleted by the mag, so be it, it is their right.

I don't think your the one who needs to apologize Troy. Looks to me like theres only one getting "bent out of shape and defensive".

Personally, I take offense to the comment made about "Thinking outside the box".
IMO, that's insulting and demeaning to everyone on this forum.

[Motions]

Uh-oh.. I feel the MR coming out in me. :D

Is this thread ready for closure?

[Helifino]

That might not be a bad idea! :rolleyes:

[tdswan]

LOL....I do like to try to be civil. I don't like to be offensive at all...It just seemed like the subject was beat to death. Referring back to the "first post" and saying the same thing over and over. You could just sense the tension in the magazine staff by trying to diffuse it and put the subject to rest, and then he wouldn't stop. It was just frustrating to read it and not say anything.

I DON'T take back my apology, though. I still feel bad for jumping on him. Chalk another time I should have just kept my mouth shut. It probably would have went away on it's own.

Thanks for the support, though. :)

[kcasner]

I just hope that because of this, oz.in. torque wrench sales won't go through the roof! :p
I apologize if it appeared that I was half-cocked. I'm not above admitting I was on the "short" side with you....For that, I apologize. :o I hope this does not cause tension in the future.
Your opinions will undoubtedly bring new light to the forum.

Not at all! I appreciate everyone's feedback/comments and don't take it to heart. I look forward to many more discussions to come =)

In regards to Helifino's post... I hope he doesn't make it a habit to attack others, and approaches things in a more respective manner in the future.

[ShaneA]

I think we are done here. We appreciate the feedback and will take everything into account in future articles and tips.