Starting Problems w/ pics

[iF_yOu_MuSt]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a problem that I am having with starting my Stinger 90. I finally got it started and broke in a couple of days ago (2 tanks). I was hovering my heli (1650 rpm) to trim it mechanically, when all of a sudden the engine cut out and I had to auto to land.
When I went to start it again, It did not want to start. So I check the glow plug and found out that it was bad. So I replaced it with a new one (os #8) and tried to start it, but to no avail. I finally got it started but I had to set my TX to half throttle to get it to start up. It would start at half throttle and then I would have to set the TX to 25% throttle to get it to idle so it wouldnt engauge the clutch. I tried leaning the high speed needle and richining it but no matter what I do, it wont start up unless the TX is at half throttle. ( Normal is 2 1/2 turns out from closed, just enough smoke)
So I was hopeing that someone had some insite as how to get the enging to start at normal TX setting, around 25%. If need more info, I will reply with more info. Below are my specs:

Gohbee Stinger 90 (8.273 gear ratio)
Os max 91 sx-Hring C Spec PS
Power Master 30% Nitro 23% lub
Multigov Governor / Limiter (Normal 1650, Idle up 1813, Idle up 2 1875)
Duralight 5.3 voltage regular w/ 3400 7.4 Thunder Power Lipo
Logictech 6100t w/ 6100g servo
.91 Century Slient Power Muffler
690 Gohbee Carbon Reinforce main blades
105mm RotorTech Carbon tail blades
DX7 Specktrum w/ DS821 (aleron, elevator, throttle)

[cbflys]

The fact that the engine quit suddenly and hasn't behaved right since - and - it seemed to take a glow plug with it leads me to believe that something got into the fuel system. Possibly debris that made it into the engine and and got to the plug.

Do the obvious first. Make sure all fuel lines and filters are clear. Remove the carb and make sure all the needles are clean. These engines should start at an idle.

[schwa]

thats what i was thinking to when i read the post.

[schwa]

and not to steal your thread.....but do you need a filter from the tank to the muffler?

[schwa]

opps, never mind, its a one way valve, which makes sense, another thing to buy now

[iF_yOu_MuSt]

First of all, thanks for all the replys.
I just cleaned out my fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel and header tank, and took out my carb and cleaned the inside. I also took apart the high speed needle valve and cleaned it. All had looked fine as I took it apart and cleaned everything. I didnt notice any debris that would clogg up anything. I put it all back together and still the same problem.
I decided to try and adjust the idle mixture control but still the same problem. I did some hovering and it quit on me again. So I set the idle mixture control back to factory settings and turned the high speed needle out 4 turns from closed and I was able to keep it from dying on me, but I still have to start it at half throttle ( HOTSTART ) and then back it off to 25% ( IDLE ).
The glow plug did not go out this time and seems fine. I think that the fist time it went out because of the break-in procedure and being a new motor.
It seems to be getting more that enough fuel because the smoke was real heavy and I had alot of fuel splattered on the ground.
Is there any other solutions out there that anyone knows of that might help me with this problem?

[cbflys]

If your fuel delivery system and carb are fine, the only other thing it could be is compression. Also, don't keep hot starting or you'll be needing a clutch liner in short order.

[blax1]

Check that the back plate bolts are tight

[Mr.HillBilly]

I was having a problem like that with my OS 32. It was caused by the low mix screw. When it was having the problem I could only start about 1/2 throttle also.

Open up your low mix about 3/4 turn and see what happens. You might not be getting any fuel until the throttle is opened far enough for the high screw to start to work.

You could try what I did when I was acting up. I would take off the glow plug, go to full throttle and crank for 1 to 2 sec. put it back on idel then try to start like normal.

[iF_yOu_MuSt]

Well....
I went to the flying field yesterday to try and fix this idle problem. I was able to get it to idle at around 30% TX opening, I had to turn my low speed mixture about 20% lean and my high speed needle 4 and 1/2 turns out. But now I have another problem.
My heli will hover for a minute, but then it seems to lose power and falls to the ground. I have to wait until the engine cools down ( Temp is around 200' to 210' ) and then start it up again. It will hover and then lose power. It seems like it leans out at the end, but the engine doesnt die on me. It just loses rmps and I cant get it off the ground. Does anyone use the Perry Pump on their engine. Im wondering if that could be the problem. I tried bypassing the Perry Pump, connecting the header tank directly to the carb, but I could not get it start up like that.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[team222badbrad]

Check your headbolts too.

I've had my head come loose twice while flying with my old engine.

Also, I know Heli Cuzz also had a problem with his engine because the sleeve was slightly rotated in the engine due to a missing pin.

Also check your carb.

I had a defective carb rotor be for which had slop and caused my many a headaches until I found the problem.

See this video about my carb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVUQRp4zSo

good luck.

[Shawn K]

So I was hopeing that someone had some insite as how to get the enging to start at normal TX setting, around 25%.

25% is not a "normal" Tx setting to start an engine with. The correct setting for starting any engine is the idle position, nothing else.

If your O.S. engine won't start reliably at an idle, then you have a significant issue that you need to address before you continue trying to fly it. Starting any engine with the throttle at 50% is a recipe for disaster.

Please check your PM's.

[iF_yOu_MuSt]

well..
Im kind of confused on what you think idle position is? Your throttle pushrod is suppose to position the carb from fully closed to fully open. At the fully closed position the engine is suppose to cut off, no fuel entering the carb, which correlates to the transmitter( 0% TX = 0% carb opening, 100% TX = 100% carb opening). Of course throttle curve plays a role, but I use standard ( 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 ) for normal mode.
I could use throttle trim to open the carb, but its the same as raising the TX lever. It still opens the carb to allow fuel to enter and start the combustion process. So what is "idle" position to you?
Second, when I started my heli at 1/2 throttle, It was in a very control situation. My hand firmly on the rotor head and foot on the skids. It was one of the steps I did to troubleshoot the problem I was having. The only disaster that might of took place was a fried clutch, which I was willing to risk.

[cbflys]

Let's reset a little.

First of all, make sure your throttle trim is all the way down. Move the throttle stick from end to end and make sure the carb goes from fully closed to fully open. I know this may seem obvious, but also make sure that the carb is fully closed at low stick (checking for reversed throw).

Close your high speed needle value (fully clockwise) then open it 2 turns. Move your throttle trim up and try to start your engine. At two turns it should be running pretty rich but it should start. You should not have to move the throttle stick up at all.

If the engine doesn't start, make sure you see fuel being drawn in. See how this goes and check back in.

[Shawn K]

So what is "idle" position to you?

Throttle at bottom stick (never above), throttle trim at the mid position. This will equate to a throttle opening of somewhere north of about 5% (rough estimate).

[iF_yOu_MuSt]

I went to the flying field today and I tried messing with the low and high speed needle, but it still doesnt work. I turned the low speed needle 90' rich, it can only be turned 90' degrees in both directions, and turned the high speed needle out 4 1/2 half turns. I got it to start up and it was spitting out fuel. I hovered the heli for about a minute, then it lost its power and fell to the ground. I also tried various other mixture settings, but it didnt work.
I think that I am done with this motor. I will be ordering another motor as soon as I get the funds.
I just want to thank everyone for taking out time in their day to give me advice. I will make sure to pass on all the advice that I had gotten to other heli pilots that needs troubleshooting to start their helis. Once again thanks.