Interested in Being a Better Pilot?

[ErichF]

I hope your answer to that question is a motivated YES! Well, read on, and hopefully I can enlighten some of you to a "low impact" style of flying that will instill confidence and the best fundamentals of flying helicopters.

The market these days is really geared up for the hot, hard core 3D flying style. It's what you see at most funflies, RC events, and National level competition. While this may be cool to watch, most of us aren't in this sport just for spectating. Unfortunately, that's what I see most new to intermediate pilots do at events, spectate. The average funfly has turned into a showcase for the most advanced pilots showing off for their sponsors, while the rest of you just sit back and watch, too intimidated to get out on the line and fly whatever you can do.

In an effort to compete with this, many of you spend hours and hours on the sim, and spend tons of cash repairing crashed helicopters. Through all this, many skip right past the most fundamental skills, such as basic hovering, in all orientations. "That's just too boring", many say. The truth is, they are just too lazy to appreciate the fundamentals.

A diminishing segment of the heli sport is built entirely upon these fundamentals, and that is Precision Helicopter Aerobatics. This type of flying is akin to fixed wing Pattern flying, but with helicopters. It involves completing a prescribed set of manuevers ranging in skill level based on classes. AMA has three levels, and the fourth level is the internationally-flown FAI F3C schedule of manuevers. The AMA levels build upon the fundamental skills as the class level increases, with class I being the lowest level.

These manuever sets can be studied at the AMA website under Competition Regulations at http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0708rulebook/RC%20Helicopter.pdf

AMA class I involves basically four tail-in hovering manuevers and four basic forward flight manuevers. AMA class II involves side-on hovering manuevers with 90 and 180 degree pirouetting manuevers, then four intermediate forward flight manuevers such as a 540 stall turn and a slow roll. AMA Class III builds upon CI and CII with advanced hovering maneuvers with some nose-in, 180 and 360 degree pirouetting manuevers, three advanced forward flight manuevers with sustained inverted segments and multiple components, and ends with a 180 degree autorotation.

Now, while these are competition rules, there's no one saying you have to compete in any contests. What I'm suggesting to all new heli pilots is to master each of these class schedules of manuevers as they progress to even more advanced flying. Competently and confidently completing these manuever sets with predictable results will make you a MUCH better pilot...a pilot that other pilots will feel comfortable having you at the line next to them.

You will find completing these manuever schedules as dictated in the rules will be a great challenge for any pilot, new or veteran. Once you master a class, try the next, or try a contest and test the waters. Helicopter contests are very laid back, educational events that don't involve Sponsored Team pilots all trying to see how low they can fly without breaking parts. They consist of professional, courteous pilots willing to share experience and time to make your flying the best you can achieve, and have a machine that will be the envy of the field in smoothness and performance. Having your flights judged will help you realize your weak points, and accenuate your positive points.

You also have to realize that most of the nation's top 3D pilots have their roots in precision heli aerobatics, to include Curtis Youngblood, and Alan Szabo.

I'm tired of writing for now... If there's any interest in this topic further, I will write next about what kind of setup is required on a "contest machine", in my next installment.

For now, I leave you with some links:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0708rulebook/RC%20Helicopter.pdf

http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4

http://www.helifreak.com/viewforum.php?f=96

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/f102p1/



Cheers,

Erich

[fernandezsraptor]

Not me man I happy just learning hovering, In all directions, in which i am still learning. for me its the thrill of heil,s, watching your 300-1000 dollar heli hover off the ground knowing anything can and will go wrong if your not on you toes, yes the pros are great to watch but they have the bling bling to fix there heli. the average joe dosent have that kind of cash, I have flowen fixed wing for 15yrs, from a piper cub to my sukhoi, and pattern flying, and now heli, and we all want to get better, but its what your comfort factor is, some of us its just getting are heli off the ground and back in one pice and some its major 3D, this is a hobby to grow with at your own pace. I never liked patter flying because your told what to do at what time and during what pass up wind or down wind, for me fly your own style and let it show. injoy and have fun, do what your comfort factor is, and try to learn something new every time you go out. grow and learn.

Safey flying everybody and bring em home in one pice. :)

[heli-cuzz]

Thanks, Erich. Some great info there. I become a better pilot every time I fly. :D

[GMONEY]

Erich, Great piece of info there.. I have been flying giant scale fixed wing for four or five years now and when you take the time to look around the best 3D pilots are awesome precesion pilots. The same holds true with helo's. In the fixed wing world we have a website called TEAMFLYINGCIRKUS.COM in the video section you will find what iws called 3DU's. Short vids with picture in picture that talk you though basic 3D manuvers. For IMAC 06 we even went and shot vids for most of the lower classes. If you have time you should check them out. Have you seen this type of vid or info for helo's? I for one feel it is mandatory to be able to hover in all directions with confidence. (I can barely hover in one place) Keep the info coming not all of us can or will ever be a Szabo.. I would love to be able to demonstrate postivie control and my wife would appreciate the clean shorts after a day of flying..

GMONEY

[ErichF]

GMoney,

I know what you're talking about, but I have not seen anything like that for precision heli flying. The truth of the matter is, you don't need to see the stick inputs, as these maneuvers are technically simple. The hard part is doing them precisely, on time and on point. Videos of the correct sequence of elements in a manuever do help, however, and I'm working on that. I made a few videos I posted only last season of Wayne Mann flying the F3C Schedules A and B. Do a search on You Tube for Wayne Mann or F3C. You can also look up my user ID (same on every board and forum).

I used to fly IMAC for four years, originally flying a Lanier 33% Extra, followed by a Comp-ARF 35% 2.6m Extra 330L. I enjoyed the challenge of performing the manuevers as dictated in the sequences, and it really made the rest of my flying better. It's so cool to place an aircraft exactly where and when you want it, anywhere in the sky.

When my engine bearings fouled up, I decided to get back into flying helis, and shortly after decided to try contest flying. There were no contests in the Tampa area, so I went and got my Contest Director license from the AMA and held a contest myself. Most of the big dogs in contest flying showed, including Wayne Mann, Cliff Hiatt, Dwight Shilling, and Gordie Mead. In fact my contest had the highest attendance of thee season! Being such a success, I held the second contest this past March, along with a 3D funfly. I think some cross-pollinization occurred, and everyone was able to see both sides of the sport. I think next year I will add a Scale contest to top it all off.

Last year, I went all the way to the Nats, and won my class. I was hooked, and here I am for a second season..still loving the challenge. This year, AMA classes all changed to new manuevers, so I am again competing in class II. The next contest is a charity event near Nashville, TN June 22-24. This is soon followed by the Nats.

Unfortunately, there are very few contests in the US, with only three this year, plus the Nats. Therefore, some travel is required to actually compete. Now, there's nothing keeping a group of pilots from holding an impromptu local get together to fly against eachother. Make it fun, judge eachother fairly, and have a great time.

One of the best features of precision flying is that you rarely crash. The manuevers are scaled in skill levels, providing just enough challenge to keep it fun, but not lead you into trouble with orientation. Only crashes I see in contest flying result from mechanical failure or just plain wear. My contest machine has a couple hundred hours on it without incedent. I had to replace most of the ball links and some bearings on it for this season, along with getting a brand new YS91. I just wore it out last season!

Anyways, when I get time, I'll make a write-up on what type of machine and setup is required for contest flying.

[GMONEY]

Erich,

Congrats on your NATS challenge. Even bigger props for grabbing the bull by the horns and doing your own contest. Having done a couple events I know just how much work is involved in doing even a small event. I have been involved at different levels in contest and funflys ranging from 10K plus spectators to Pattern contest with twenty entries. I threaten each year to make the NATS. One day. I think a small local contest may be in order this summer for a couple of my new helo buddies.. Keep us updated on your progress and make sure you take some time for pics at the NATS.

GMONEY

[Shawn K]

Erich is absolutely spot-on when he describes Contest Flying. I spent all of last season doing virtually nothing but Class 1 and Class 2 maneuvers at my local flying field. The guys in my club were good enough to tolerate me setting up cones at one end of our runway in the same dimensions as the AMA regulations, and I flew tank after tank after tank. As I recall, my Evo 50 (last year's bird) would last an actual 20 minutes on a tank at the headspeeds I was running, and I burned 16 gallons of fuel doing virtually nothing but precision hovering and orientation work (with a little goofing around thrown in here and there).

Erich was also correct about people skipping the fundamentals. Too many people try to learn complicated maneuvers by some series of timing tricks, and that's just not a good recipie for long-term success. Spend a season really sweating the basics (precision hovering, 4 upright orientations, forward and backwards flight), and you'll discover that suddenly, you're a much more comfortable pilot who isn't constantly on edge when flying (I don't buy into the "if you're not scaring yourself, you're not truly flying" mentality).

A wonderful fringe benefit of Contest Flying - like Erich said - is lowered repair costs. The only crashes I had last year (2 that I can remember) were from mechanical failures due to neglect on my part. "Dumb thumb" crashing when practicing Contest Flying is virtually nonexistent.

Thanks, Erich, for taking the time to post. I've been watching you for a couple years now, and you're really becoming an Ambassador for the sport!

[cbflys]

I think this is an excellent topic. The more I travel and visit flying sites, the more I see heli flyers just ripping up the sky with chaotic maneuvers. Don't get me wrong, when done right they are impressive. However, from what I've witnessed, those who are capable of doing them right are rare.

I enjoy flying large circuits, taking up alot of sky and doing aerobatics such as loops, axial rolls, and 540 stall turns. This style of flying is hand/eye coordination and collective/cyclic management - and not so much a matter of timing (although not entirely true). I very rarely see helicopter pilots doing this kind of flying anymore.

I learned the old fashioned way - without a simulator and without someone to help me. So I took it slow. Progressing to the next step only when I knew I wasn't flying beyond my comfort zone. I went from no skill to proficiency without a single crash. I don't believe this is possible if your sites are set on 3D from the get-go. I think everyone should spend some alone time with their heli and just concentrate on learning the basic skills - as boring as it sounds. Slow circuits, nose-in, and inverted flying. When that's mastered, then you're ready for 3D.

[AaronS]

I was the first person to fly an electric heli at the NATS!! :D in 2005 I flew a TREX 450 in front of the worlds best, and I took 1st (out of 1) in class 2.(I may have only been competing against myself, but I had a ball at that competition) I agree that precision flying is a a under represented segment of the hobby, and I have it on my list of topics to write an article about. I think some of the best 3D pilots like Curtis and both Szabos and Scott Gray have their edge because of their background in FAI flying. It is also a great way to compliment skills needed to fly aerial photography. Hovering at a high altitude and trying to hold a steady hover can be a huge challenge, and those skills become second nature with the precision flying you do in FAI.

[ErichF]

Some great responses here...nice to see some dialog on the subject.

Aaron, I had read about some guy flying a Trex 450 at the Nats in class II. After seeing that, I made my decision to go to the Nats for the first time. I figured, if some guy with a T rex can have a go at Class II, I sure as hell could!

Now, I realize it was you! How cool is that? I actually have YOU to thank for motivating me to the Nats last year.

I think there is a quiet plurality of pilots want to get away from stick banging, and try their hand at precision flying. If you look at it, if you're interested in re-creating the full scale operation, precision is what it's all about. Hovering an RC model over a cone is NOTHING compared to hovering an HH-60 JayHawk helicopter over a sinking boat's stern in a hurricane. If you think hovering over a cone is boring, you're not commiting yourself seriously enough to the task. The rush doesn't come from not crashing, it comes from not failing to exercise complete control over your model. When being judged in a contest, the rush comes from proving your time and effort in practice to your peers, and quite often, to some of the best pilots in the world. I have often been judged by Wayne Mann, Dwight Shilling, etc...and taken their applauses and their critizisms to make myself a better pilot. How cool is that?

As I said before, it doesn't matter if you never fly in an actual contest, either. It's all about self improvement. Consider it Yoga for helicopter modelling. There's the adrenaline junky crowd that just has to fly on the edge, averting disaster with every manuever they shake out. Then there's those that enjoy the calmer, yet challenging side of flying. Frankly, my favorite part of contest flying is the upstairs manuevers. Flying at 90 mph and pulling up into a 300 foot radius loop or doing a 3 second slow roll that consumes 3/4 of the runway length without a dip or corkscrew is just amazing. Doing it over and over, fixing the minor errors that probably only you know about, is part of the sport. To some folks, it's an exercise in futility. To others, they can't leave the field that day until they have it as best they can. Maybe it's the OCD in me, I don't know.

If you try it, and give it a fair shake, and find it's not your cup of tea, that's great. You now have the ability to say that you have tried something that very few pilots can/will do. However, if you're like most of the guys that I have seen actually fly in their first contest, you'll most likely be hooked.

There's a reason I have chosen RCHeli Mag forums to bring this to. Many of you reading this magazine are new to model helis, and as such you have lots to learn and much to try. You can't learn more about helis than participating in contest flying, contests or not. So, as RCHeli grows as a magazine, so does it's readership. I find it very interesting to see a group of RC car guys throw out a new Heli Mag, and learn about helicopters right along side of most of their readers. I have seen lots of critisism aimed at RCHeli from some on other forums, and while I do see technical errors here and there in the magazine, none I have found to be dreadfully dangerous to pilot or machine. It's a learning process for all here. I challenge the editors of RCHeli to cover the next contest, or at least the Nats this year. This year's Nats will include an experimental 3D contest based on Curtis' suggested rules. This is to make an attempt at creating a judging standard for 3D contests that ANYONE can participate in, not just an invited few super pilots to a sponsor-driven marketing event (Read XFC).

Whew, that's enough for now :) I am gonna go and think about what subject I'm gonna write about here next time. There's just so much I have learned in the past two years that I can't wait to pass on. I have been flying RC helis for nearly 20 years, but I have learned the most in the past two.

Cheers,

[heli-cuzz]

My love for helis and the info in your 1st post is making me a better pilot already. Thank you, Erich. :cool:

I'm definitely a smooth stick banger style, but have many moments of practice with precision type flying. :)

[Shawn K]

I challenge the editors of RCHeli to cover the next contest, or at least the Nats this year.

I have, in fact, already suggested that very thing to Mike. I live about 3.5 hours from Muncie, and plan on attending the Nats as a spectator anyway.

[AaronS]

I will be flying in the 3D competition at the NATS :D

[ErichF]

plan on attending the Nats as a spectator anyway.

Wuss! ;)

No such thing as a spectator at the Nats, unless you are also into watching a good game of golf. :p

It's not much to watch, unless you're into the details...which means you should be flying!

[Helifino]

Interesting topic, thanks for the info ErichF! I would like to see the mag cover the Nats and do a piece on this.

Enjoy reading your posts ErichF, keep'em coming.

[aerodave]

I've heard it said that freedom comes from discipline. While I believe that holds true for flying helis I feel the answer for many of us lies somewhere in the middle, between stick banging and FAI. In my area the average heli pilot can do forward flight, maybe a stall turn. Some can hover inverted, some can't. Yet the majority of flying field conversations revolve around the latest 3D moves. I can't help but suspect this trend, greatly influenced by manufacturers and their stable of top flyers, is some kind of elaborate practical joke. The guys I come in contact with would be relieved to have the kind of moves they (we) need to work on celebrated or encouraged. What about a contest where an upright, horizontal figure eight was on the schedule. Did you maintain alititude? Was the move presented mid field with semmetrical circles on each side? How about a 180 degree stall turn? Did the pilot get to zero pitch on the up and down lines? Did they start with the disc level, insuring a true vertical ascent? Moves like these would be easy and fun to do, while still requiring discipline and practice. Yet it wouldn't be as tough or tedious as some of the hovering tasks represented in FAI. Some hovering stuff could (should) be included. But it could be done in such a way that would be more inviting to your average Joe lunch bucket heli dude. I'm thinking of organizing such an event in my area. Sure, there'd be problems with more experienced guys pounding the newbs. But everyone would have a good time. Everyone would feel the contest was within reach. Everyone would feel they belonged at the event. With the growing interest in rc helis, there is a real need to foster and validate proper, appropriate progress toward competency. We must do this in a way that is inclusive and fun for all.

[ErichF]

What about a contest where an upright, horizontal figure eight was on the schedule. Did you maintain alititude? Was the move presented mid field with semmetrical circles on each side? How about a 180 degree stall turn? Did the pilot get to zero pitch on the up and down lines? Did they start with the disc level, insuring a true vertical ascent? Moves like these would be easy and fun to do, while still requiring discipline and practice. Yet it wouldn't be as tough or tedious as some of the hovering tasks represented in FAI. Some hovering stuff could (should) be included. But it could be done in such a way that would be more inviting to your average Joe lunch bucket heli dude. I'm thinking of organizing such an event in my area. We must do this in a way that is inclusive and fun for all.


Dave,

All excellent stuff. Something leads me to think that you haven't actually looked at the AMA class manuevers, though. Here they are:

19.1. Class I
19.1.1 Tail-in Vertical Rectangle
19.1.2 Tail-in Inverted Triangle
19.1.3 Spike with 90 and 180 Degree Pirouettes
19.1.4 Straight Flight Out, Procedure Turn,
Straight Flight Back
19.1.5 Stall Turn
19.1.6 Cobra Vee
19.1.7 1 Axial Roll
19.1.8 Landing Approach to Eye Level Hover

Lets go through each of them, and you tell me if Joe Lunch Bucket couldn't pull any of these off...

The first hovering manuever is the Tail-In Vertical Rectangle. You take off from the central pad and pause in an eye-level hover. After two seconds, you slide left or right (pilot's choice) to a hover over one of the cones. Then, you climb two meters and pause once more. Then slide sideways across the box to the other cone and pause. Descend two meters to an eye-level hover and pause. Then slide back over to the central pad, pause, then land. The entire manuever is performed tail-in.

The Second hovering manuever goes as such:
Model takes off from the central helipad and rises vertically to eye level, pauses, climbs sideways two (2) meters to the either flag, pauses, turns 90 degrees nose toward the central helipad, pauses, flies over the central helipad to the opposite flag, pauses, turns 90 degrees nose out, pauses, descends two (2) meters sideways back to the central helipad, pauses, descends vertically to land on central helipad. This manuever requires some hovering from a side-on perspective, but is still mostly tail-in.

The last hovering manuever, the Spike with 90 and 180 piros, is like this:
Model Takes off from central helipad and rises vertically to eye level, pauses, turns 90
degrees either direction, pauses, climbs two (2) meters, pauses, turns 180 degrees tail in, pauses, descends two (2) meters, pauses, turns 90 degree nose out, pauses, and descends vertically to the central helipad. This is a very simple manuever that remains over the central pad.

The first forward flight maneuver is basically half of that figure 8 you described, the Straight Flight Out, Procedure Turn, Straight Flight Back:
Maintaining constant altitude, the model flies straight and level past the midline, executes a 90 degree turn away from the judges and then an immediate 270 degree turn in the opposite direction, and flies straight in the opposite direction down the original line of flight. The judging criteria for this manuever is pretty much the same as your figure 8.

The next maneuver, the 180 Stall turn, is exactly like you mentioned it:
Model flies straight and level past the centerline for ten (10) meters minimum, then climbs vertically with a smoothly rounded curve of 90 degrees. When the vertical climb stops, the model rotates 180 degrees in yaw so that the nose points straight downward. While diving, the model follows the same path as the beginning of the maneuver. The start and finish of the pull up should be on the midline and the vertical line is offset in the direction of flight.

The next maneuver, the Cobra Vee, is a simple looking thing that is probably the hardest of the class I manuevers to perform:
Model flies straight and level for ten (10) meters and climbs at a smoothly rounded curve for 45 degrees, flies straight for ten (10) meters minimum, executes a sharp 90 degree pushover to descend at 45 degrees, descends in a straight line for ten (10) meters
minimum, recovers to level flight in a smoothly rounded curve that matches the initial pull, flies straight and level for ten (10) meters at the original altitude. Maneuver should be centered on the midline.

Now the following manuever is probably done by just about any pilot with a few weeks or months of forward flight practice...the roll. It's not a slow roll, or a point roll...just a plain old roll, with the inverted segment positioned on the midline. Deductions are from corkscrewing, loss or gain in altitude, etc.

The last maneuver is basically a scale approach to hover from slow forward flight, and the judging stops once the helicopter enters the hover. The landing isn't even scored:
Beginning at a minimum altitude of ten (10) meters, the model will descend in a straight
line parallel to the flight line, maintaining a constant rate of descent to an eye level hover over the three (3) meter central helipad, turns 90 degrees to tail in, and hovers for two (2) seconds.

So, as you can see, the level of the maneuvers, or even the manuevers you stated, are right where any Joe Bucket pilot can perform. If a pilot is more advanced, that's why there are more advanced classes II and III. That's how Newbs don't get pounded by advanced pilots, as you said you wanted to avoid. There is no reason to go out and create all new manuevers as that would be an obvious waste of time.

My suggestion, is to get your buddies together and hold an informal contest for a case of beer, or something (obviously for AFTER the flying), using the AMA class schedules for the event. Make it fun with a BBQ at the field, and even hold an impromptu 3D event, auto contest, or something at noontime.

Precision contests are nothing like 3D championship events, where you're right, no average pilot would think of entering (myself included). As a matter of fact, all current 3D contests are invitational anyway. Precision contests, even the Nats, are all open-entry available to anyone, regardless of experience, as long as you are safe.

[aerodave]

Thanks, Erich. Lots of good, accessable stuff in there. I assure you I'm not trying to re invent the wheel. And you're right, I hadn't looked at this schedule in a long time. I remember some years ago a friend put me "on the cones" and went through those hovering manuevers. Great stuff. Still lots of stuff. Kinda makes me dizzy. Yet I think ultimately, the AMA class schedules and sanctioned events would accomplish the same goals while putting more back into the hobby. I'm just suggesting, and just for the sake of discussion, maybe sneaking up on it a bit. A little bit of what they call approximation training. A few easy, maybe 3 maneuver events, and then as guys get a taste for it, align (pardon the pun) that with with the goals and expectations and rewards of the AMA. See, I think there's a reason Pattern contests are becoming more rare, too. Maybe we need to bridge the gap a bit. Just a thought, Dude. Thanks for starting this thread.

Joe Lunchbucket
AKA, Dave

[ErichF]

A few easy, maybe 3 maneuver events, and then as guys get a taste for it, align (pardon the pun) that with with the goals and expectations and rewards of the AMA. See, I think there's a reason Pattern contests are becoming more rare, too. Maybe we need to bridge the gap a bit.

Dave, I totally understand, and agree.

I like the idea of a "half-a-contest" with just a few of the manuevers. A good way to expose the average fliers to the advantages of precise flying and fundamentals. Throw in some free-style stuff, auto contests, etc for a well rounded event. I would also agree to have at least one unknown manuever in the event to reward well-rounded pilots.

I came into AMA class flying from IMAC. IMAC enjoys growing numbers every season, although it may be levelling off these days. I think it has the perfect blend of maneuvers, rules, and flying disciplines to entice nearly any average pilot willing to fly in front of judges. I don't agree with some of the AMA rules in helicopter competition, but I get along with them fine enough. I also think a little bit of freestyle flying in helicopter contest flying would be a welcome addition, in the form of a separate scored event just like in IMAC. I also think that the addition of unknown schedules would help level the playing field for contestants, and offer a unique challenge to all pilots. Unknowns would also reward pilots that are well-rounded, rather than the current known schedules which only reward for a specific skill set of manuevers practiced continually.

I'm very happy to see where this debate/thread has gone. The more the merrier!

[Shawn K]

Wuss! ;)

No such thing as a spectator at the Nats, unless you are also into watching a good game of golf. :p

It's not much to watch, unless you're into the details...which means you should be flying!

The way things are turning out recently, I'll be lucky at this point to get even one day off from work to go spectate! :p

And actually, I'm prpobably one of the few who actually enjoys watching as much as doing, since I do understand exactly what's going on.

[aerodave]

Erich,
I really like your idea of having some freestyle in there, too. What I'm thinking now is to have a 2 part contest. Comupulsury tasks in the morning, right out of the AMA schedule. Then a freestyle event in the afternoon. For the first contest, the freestyle might not even be judged. Just give the guys a chance to show off a bit. I think there is great wisdom in taking the maneuvers from the AMA schedule. Then, when folks decide to step it up a notch and compete in a sanctioned event, they've already flown some of the moves in front of judges. And some of those tasks are so basic, guys just out of the tail in hovering stage could give it a go. You see, up ntil this year, there haven't been any heli pilots in my area, except me and this other guy. Now all of a sudden eveybody wants to fly helis. So I'm just looking ahead, trying to use this enthusiasm to help establish a strong foundation for the sport in this area. Give guys some successes they can build on, thereby creating some depth in the region. I'm a school teacher and this year I've been able to start an electric heli club in my junior high school. More kids are getting involved all the time. Its a great time for the sport of RC helicopters. Those us of with the vision and ability have a great opportunity to further this activity at the grass roots level. Thanks again for getting this thread going. Maybe others will try and get something going in their locations, too.

Dave

[heli-cuzz]

I guess the common practice is to use orange safety cones.

There have been times I'll use my dog as a practice point. He'll run around the field and be sniffing something out, I'll fly to my dog and hover about 15 feet above him, he'll notice the heli and run to another spot while I practice my nose in, out, left, and right. I then fly to my dog again and practice my orientations. He runs, I'll do again, then get bored with that and start tossing my heli around the sky. :)

[cbflys]

For the sake of conformance - you should paint your dog orange.

[aerodave]

gosh,
I don't have a dog or an orange cone. I guess I'm stuck autoin' for beer......

[GMONEY]

I just wanted to thank you guys for your advice on being a better pilot. In the last week with some quality practice I finally feel like I am getting somewhere. My goal now is to get into FF solidly by the end of this month. Thanks again practice with purpose has brought me to my next level.

Thanks
GMONEY

[SACK]

Hey Gmoney What About Thanking Me Hehe :D

[ErichF]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[GMONEY]

Hey Gmoney What About Thanking Me Hehe :D

Yeah arent you part of this forum? Well truth be told SACKMAN has been the biggest push of all the daily phone calls " We flying tonight?" The expert setup and parts at the ready. I couldnt possibly say thanks enough SACK! Tomorrow 8:00 a.m. dont be late I have got to get at least five flights in before 10 and be home by 11.... Tommorow more chest high hover at three pints and possibly some nose in CARNAGE. Some super drills to set me up for sucees on the FF.

GMONEY