Did I make a big mistake with this bird?

[FlyorDie]

In trying to quell my sons emotional fit when we got rid of his pet cats I started looking for a RC Heli. Obviously this was just an excuse to get what I've always wanted as really at 7 he can only watch for a few more years. Here in lies the problem, I had to do this as cheap as possible and the blade CP was going for Close to $300 with tax. I went online to Ebay and got a 6Channel CCPM Walkera Dragofly 22E. With 2 extra LiPo's it was only $160 US with shipping. THEN i found this magazine in the 3rd issue and didn't see so much as the Dragonfly name, even in these posts I only found 1 instance of it. Is this the Heli I hope it will be or should I have spent the extra money?

Next question, is there any hints for an EXTREME newbie on how to start flying this thing when it gets here? I mean will it even tell me what control makes it do what?

Lastly RCHELI rocks! The 120 Terms article was a God send!! Thanks!!

[cyclic fever]

In general, newbies have nothing but fits with the cheap helis because one almost always as to rebuild those walkera helis with quality gear and your right back to "should have spent the extra anyway" argument. All too often people see the low dollar helis and assume they're ideal for the beginner when the total opposite is almost always true. Another problem which is overlooked is, where do you get parts? Many walk-in hobby shops will have T-rex, Shogun, Blade CX/CP or MX400 parts right on the wall, or can get the right ones for you even if you dont know or understand fully what you need. IMHO the walkera stuff is Flea Market stuff and can be turned into a ok heli with a good deal of mods and new hardware,but finding it is a "Wheres Waldo" affair many times. One big thing that is also overlooked is, what part of that heli can be carried over and used on your next step up? Nada, zip, nothing, well, maybe the "AA"s in the transmitter. With larger electrics and nitro birds, the radio, engine/motor, gyro, almost everything can or may be carried over to the next heli and thats where the savings really comes into play. But this assumes you want to go onto that next step at some point, maybe not.If you bought this as a toy that in 3 months or less from now will be in the trash and forgotten about, you got one. If you bought this as your first great leap into the hobby,hoping that this heli will allow you and your son to enjoy the thrill of learning to fly without a great deal of re-work to the heli, you'll be sorely dissapointed. I dont want to make you feel that you should throw it away before you've even gotten it but I just wanted you to know the "trend" these things take more often than not. Some people have good luck, as bigginers, with these helis and I hope they post it, but I think we'll see those numbers are small. Its not easy for the newbie to make a choice on the right heli nowadays because the market is flooded with all kinds of junk. Its also hard to find any info for the newbie too because he doesnt know where to ask questions and find answers. You have now found a good starting point to get your questions answered on this forum. If you want a good cheap training tool that your son will be flying better than you, look into getting a Vectron Blackhawk, heres a link to it at Tower Hobbies site http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBYW5&P=ML I bought one and it flew great. At thanksgiving, all the grandkids,10 of them from 6yrs to 12yrs old, took turns flying it and all took right to it. I'm surprised it survived the wall bashing but I sure got my moneys worth out of it. Not one of them all day wanted to play the Playsation,lol. Mike E.

[FlyorDie]

Well that's may not be what I wanted to hear, but I guess it's what I had to hear. Thanks alot for the input it is greatly appreciated. And make no mistake I am not in this for the short term, I have always been facinated by RC Heli's and to be honest I just never thought it was a hobby I could afford. I guess this heli was good in that at least I could break in to it enough to justify a better heli when I prove to the accounting department (my wife) that I can fly it. So I will use it in the mean time then move up to a .30 or so when I can afford it. Probably nitro as these darn batteries are so expensive, not to mention you can fly all day (assuming I don't have a huge crash).

Thanks for all the help, and if anyone has some helpful hints for the helilogically declined please let me know!

[opjose]

Aw don't let his post get you down.

While many if the issues he talks about are very true the 22E isn't inherently a BAD heli.

Venom-Aircorps relables the 22e as the Nightranger 3D. The parts are interchangable.

Both use the same receiver and transmitter... although the Nightranger has a much better manual and seems to come out of the box properly adjusted.

The Walkera needs a good bit of tinkering to work properly but it does fly well with the stock setup, even in 3D.

You merely have to read up on it (a LOT) so that you can tackle it's inherent out of box weeknesses.

E.G. the pitch/throttle settings are always WAAY off, etc.

Check the reviews for the Nightranger 3D. Those apply to your heli.

They are NOT very bad are they? Most reviewers like the Nightranger as a beginner's heli...

Parts are not a problem to get as many U.S. suppliers now stock the Walkera stuff w/o the long Asian import delays and shipping expenses.

All in all, it was NOT a bad choice as some may lead you to believe, but the 22e does require a bit of work before you fly it the first time.

[FlyorDie]

Thanks for the advice. I made sure to order it with extra blades just incase, as well as 2 lipo batteries. The one thing you mentioned that makes me nervous is that the heli has to be adjusted before flying. I know NOTHING about them. I REALLY want to get into the sport but it's gonna be a heck of a learning curve. Not only do I not know how to adjust them, I don't know how they SHOULD fly so I won't even know if I should be adjusting them. I'm gonna have a stroke before it even gets here!

I don't know anyone that flys them around here, especially in the winter as I am up in the frozen north of Canada.

Thanks again for the advice, I will try to leave a post when it gets here.

[cyclic fever]

Hey flyordie, I found a site that carries Walkera stuff thats out of San Diego Ca.
http://www.rc-dymond.com/
They dont show the 22E but they did sell them at one time. A e-mail might be all thats needed to find out if they have parts. They do show a Walkera 36 and parts so maybe some of them are compatable. Mike

[FlyorDie]

That's great I now have it book marked, thanks for the heads up! Hopefully I won't need to buy spare parts for a while but I think that is unlikely.

You guys rock!

[kaji]

Cyclic,

First, I agree. Second, I have to compliment you, on your well written post. You could put that in the magazine. Good job.

[opjose]

Not only do I not know how to adjust them, I don't know how they SHOULD fly so I won't even know if I should be adjusting them. I'm gonna have a stroke before it even gets here!


Adjustment is not that difficult on the 22E, but it must be done before you fly.

A couple of us have covered this on the Walkera Web Site FORUMS (not the main page's discussion threads).

Look there.

With the 22E you'll have to

- Make sure that there is no binding in any of the mechanisms. The best way to do this is to remove the motor and freely spin the rotor.

You will be looking for frictionless seeming rotation.

It's hard to gauge this at first, as you'll have no idea what to look for.

I took my first few helis apart very carefully, and broke the rotor head down completely (making absolutely sure I knew how everything went back together!).

I then used a .1g resolution scale to balance all duplicated parts.

Linkages were set to documented lengths using a linkage ruler (later adjusted in unison when needed...).

Blades were balanced down to .1g.

I took off the swash, main shaft, etc.

Everything was carefully re-installed. The difference on the rotor head movement was amazing after doing all of this.

- Make sure that the clearance between the pinion gear and the main gear is appropriate.

The two sheets of paper rule is a good one. You need a bit of play, but not too much.

- Make sure that the swash levels out properly with the servos centered.

Since the 22E is a CCPM bird, this is both easier and more difficult to do at the same time.

CCPM has fewer moving parts to cause problems, but if the swash does not rest properly it can be a bit frustrating to get it set up. Adjust the linkages as needed.

- Remote the tail motor and pull the tail shaft and bearings. Clean then re-install them, making sure that the tail shaft spins freely.

Balance the tail blades. Check tail pinion clearances while re-installing the motor.

- Balance the main blades on a .1g scale. Use tape to make them equal.

- Balance the paddles as well. Shave off/sand a bit of plastic from the heavier paddle until equal.

- Run the rotor w/o the blades to check for wobble in the head, gear and shaft.

- Replace the blades and tighten them just enough to keep the blades from moving when the heli is held with the main shaft to the horizon. You should be able to move the blades in their grips, but they should not be moved by gravity alone.

- Tighten all collars and make sure that there is only a BIT of up and down movement of the main shaft.

- See the PZT/PLT threads on the Walkara forums about adjusting the TX's PZT/PLT points. This is rather important!

You must DECREASE the blade pitch a bit to get that rotor head speed up as much as possible while still producing ample lift.

- Balance the Heli's CG. Get it under the main shaft as much as possible. (I prefer that the nose NOT be inclined to make hovering easier).

- Balance the CG from side to side as well. A slight rightward lean is ok.

- Set up the Gyro hint: clamp the heli down onto a heavy turntable... turn on the TX and heli then run it up and make sure that the tail holds position through most of the throttle range. You want to eliminate any spinning tendancy. You also want to get rid of tail wagging.


And remember, the first time you crash (and you will!) you'll have to do it all again!


Advice: Spend the 200.00 USD on a good sim, such as G3 ( Reflex if your PC isn't up to par...)

It will pay for itself in a very short period of time!


EVERY newbie things that this is too expensive and they cannot afford it.

Every experienced pilot knows better, that they should have listened to this advice.

[FlyorDie]

Thanks that is awesome, unfortunately I just got it to day and it is too late i had a few failures while learning to hover. The 1st i got fixed, there was a part they held together buy melting the plastic and I broke those off in my 1st crash, a 2mm drill bit and tap set and i fixed it with a screw. The 2nd crash was a little worse, i tried to memorize how it all went together but now I have 2 ball type joints connected back to back that broke off and I don't even know where it came from, if there were 2 of these the other is totally gone. The blade almost flip right over now but i can't see where the other end attached too.

Can you buy a metal/upgraded head for this heli?

Thanks in advance

[opjose]

Thanks that is awesome, unfortunately I just got it to day and it is too late i had a few failures while learning to hover. The 1st i got fixed, there was a part they held together buy melting the plastic and I broke those off in my 1st crash, a 2mm drill bit and tap set and i fixed it with a screw. The 2nd crash was a little worse, i tried to memorize how it all went together but now I have 2 ball type joints connected back to back that broke off and I don't even know where it came from, if there were 2 of these the other is totally gone. The blade almost flip right over now but i can't see where the other end attached too.

Can you buy a metal/upgraded head for this heli?

Thanks in advance

The metal head will make a bad situation worst.

There is nothing wrong with CNC/Aluminum, but the crashes tend to cost you MORE money!

The metal heads are stronger. As such they are more prone to cracking upon impact. I've had this happen several times, e.g. a blade grip cracked and a screw tore out of it's socket... a VERY expensive repair for a simple ground roll. Ugh.


The plastic tends to give in a crash, resulting in fewer catastrophic breaks.

Stick with the plastic until you get very good with the heli, then the metal heads are worth it, once you stop crashing!

Do not be tempted to drill into the plastic pieces or modify them, you'll be paying for even more replacement parts when you do this.

Check ebay for a "frame". I picked up a replacement DF #04 frame for a whopping 10.00. Much cheaper than buying the parts.

In any event, order the replacement parts, e.g. www.rc-and-me.com and while you wait, take the advice, (it's starting to look better eh?) and get your sim.

Once the parts come in, resist the urge to fly, and practice, practice, practice with the sim for a month or two.

THEN put your bird back together and tune it up. Static bench test it as above and get it smoothly working again, before you try to fly it.

To lessen damage, the next time you fly, go outside on the grass, and take off from a large plywood board. Hop it up into the air about 4 feet.

By this point in time with the sim, you'll have some forward flight "mental muscle" and will do better.

When you bring it down... bring it low then cut the throttle fully.

From about 6-10 inches nothing should happen with the heli landing on grass.

This is much safer than hitting concrete from the same height.

[faster u fool]

I have run across several forums that deal with the walkera birds...A quick Google search should put you in touch with one...Probably run ryder or rc universe..I can't really remember.
When learning to fly your new bird, remember, BABY STEPS. Get some training gear (the balls on the long sticks) and start slow and low.learning the movements of the bird on the ground first and then slowly moving into hover flight. I wrecked my bird beyond repair within the first 10 mins I had it. So when bought a new one I did what I was supposed to and went slow..It did almost kill me to do it but now I have no issues flying it...
Good luck.

[HeatSeeker{DEN}]

:cool: I have ran into the same problems when it comes to finding someone in your area that knows about these miniture egg-beaters, and like you I bought a Walkera on ebay. Mine was a Walkera 4 and was not capable of inverted flight. I had no experiance and went searching for information. I found that there is a member on Ebay that has a product called the heli e-book. http://www.geocities.com/heli_ebook/heliebookinpdf.htm I purchased it and have had a great deal of luck with its information. it focuses on the Blade CP and the Walkera 4, and the AreoHawk. The book goes into good detail about helicopter theory, setup, tracking,ect,ect. I bought it several months ago and have reffered to it quite frequently. This might be a good start for information as well. While I am sure that much of the information is available online, its nice to have it all in one place and at 15.00, I got more than my moneys worth. I used it a second time in the setup of my Blade CP. I then found this forum, and it is a wealth of information as well. The Walkera was a handfull, but became rewarding. one thing to keep in mind, many of the copters out there today are duplicates(so to speak) and use many of the same parts ie. the blade cp venom, and walkera 4 use the same tail rotor,landing gear, and some other parts. Most of the cheaper helicopters are what you make of them... they can be a lot of fun, or a giant headache :cool:

[FlyorDie]

Thank you guys sooo much for your help. Sorry it took so long to reply I just got back from a course with work for 2 weeks. All my spare parts arrived today and I am ready to try it again. But 1st will be a week or 2 on the simulator I ordered!!! Thank again you guys have been great!!

[gdr47]

i flew a reflex sim for 4 1/2 months before i ever tried to fly.....first chopper was a trex.....i have now flown i mean hoovered it for 8 batteries worth...about 80 minutes if actual flight time.....no crashes yet....not even a boo boo....knock on wood......

do ther simulator thing dude best money you can spend,,,,
p.s. every time you crash on sim o notta spent on repairs...

gary

[TheOldGuy]

I too have long thought that this is a very expensive hobby. This has changed in the last few years as features and quality rises and prices drop. My main interests have been RC cars (electric and nitro), RC boats (Electric hydros and sail) and one tank (German armour rules).
In trying to get started in small electric helis, I've run into a rather large road block. In cars and boats, it's easy to research a product. Not so in RC helis. It seems that a lot of helis are re labelled and re named. It would be very helpful if there were a list of different helis and the various names that the same heli is known as from the different distributors. If a Blade CP is the same as the Honey Bee, It's so much easier to determine if parts will be avalable from my local hobby shops (I do anticipate a crash or two).

[HeatSeeker{DEN}]

:cool: While there are several choppers that do use interchangeable parts, I dont know of any that are complete copies. This may be my own in-experiance, but from the research I have done there are differances in all of them. Much of it is trial and error to figure out which parts you can use from a different heli. Take your copter to your local hobby store and take a look at their parts selection, you might be supprised by what you find. :cool: